Welcome to CafeMom
join our community and talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)

We won't show your age or birthday to anyone unless you want us to!

Appropriate discipline for 5 year old??

Posted by on May. 3, 2012 at 9:04 AM
  • 27 Replies

 My five year old has me at the end of my rope.  She will not get dressed in the morning.  She will do it for daycare, her dad, my mom, everyone else.  She has tantrums that her clothes are too tight, too loose, itchy, or there is something not right about every fucking of them.  It's to the point, I'm ready to call her dad and say, you want to be a fucking father, come pick her up.  She's welcome to come home when she can get dressed.  And before I get bashed, I've tried everything.  I've talked to her dr., we do a chore chart, I've tried letting her pick out her clothes at the store, she picks and tries on her clothes the night before, wearing her clothes to bed the night before, I let her help with laundry, every possible thing you can think of I've tried.  I can't keep having every damn morning a miserable scream fest because my 5 year old can't figure out what she wants to wear when her outfits are [picked out the night before.  Magically there is a problem with them every goddamn morning.  SHe screams like I"m hurting her, in reality I"m chasing her around the fucking room forcing something on her.  She went to school today in some shit that wasn't weather appropriate (shorts and a tank top).  I told her she was not allowed to change clothes (her teacher has let her in the past), and I told her if it was too cold for her to go outside she had to go to the younger kids room and stay in.  Here's the thing, at this point I could give a fuck what she wears, I just want her to wear something, anything, that doesn't require a fight.  IDC if she goes in her pajamas, but even thats a fight.  I fucking hate my life.  I hate that this is my life every fucking morning.  It's always a fight and I"m done iwth it.  I'm done iwth doing this shit on my own.  I just need some fucking help and I have none, not a fucking soul will help me. 

Anyways, I told her her discipline for tonight is she will come home and clean the room that she destroyed this morning.  She will come down and have dinner, and go back up and sit on her bed until it's bed time.  In the past I've taken TV priveleges, playing outside, everything.  She doesn't care.  Is this appropriate for her age?  Help me please.  I'm out of ideas and patience..

Posted by on May. 3, 2012 at 9:04 AM
Add your quick reply below:
You must be a member to reply to this post.
Replies:
Mommy2justone
by Platinum Member on May. 4, 2012 at 9:23 AM
My daughter can't wear anything with a thick seam, it is a sensory issue. But if that is not the case, and being from a split family myself, that sounds like she is wanting your attention more than she is getting it.
Posted on CafeMom Mobile
JoyfulGirl
by on May. 4, 2012 at 9:27 AM

I am sorry about my lengthy comment. All of the comments from others weren't showing up for me for some reason. I pretty much said what a few others said, but I said it with many more words. LOL! Even though I said all of that, I also wanted to add that because time is an issue, you might want to make her get dressed before she has breakfast. Tell her, "You are welcome to come eat breakfast once you're dressed for school." 
Okay, that's it. I promise. LOL! Good luck!  

Refurbished
by Member on May. 4, 2012 at 9:39 AM
1 mom liked this

She will do it for daycare, her dad, my mom, everyone else. >>

Children are always the most obnoxious with the one they feel most comfortable with. 

emandab
by Member on May. 4, 2012 at 10:16 AM

I think I'm going to look more in to this and the active ignoring like pp suggested.  I've been doing some of  it already, just didn't realize it lol.  I really want to stop the yelling, frustration and anger I have when my 4yrold doesn't listen.  That girl will just flat out ignore me!  I ask nicely a couple times but when she ignores me my temper rears its ugly head lol.  I finally got my DH to go along with me about her hissy fits as far as ignoring them.  That was my tactic a couple years ago, but he was like "are you going to let her sit there and have a fit?" well yes I was going to ignore her, why ger her bad behavior attention? but he was being an ass much of the time then so I did what he wanted. Which just lead to yelling.  Now he says maybe we should just ignore her when she's doing that.  I KNOW, that's what I was doing but you butted in with your sage advice lol!  I can really see myself in the same position as the OP in a year, so I'm taking all the good advice and using it! Thanks!

Quoting JoyfulGirl:

I suggest using Love and Logic techniques. Love and Logic uses natural consequence and empathy to teach kids responsibility. It does not involve yelling, spanking, or even "time-outs". You give your child choices, lots of them. And give them plenty of opportunity to make mistakes at a young age when those mistakes have very minor consequences. 

When your child fails, which they are certainly going to do, they learn through the natural consequences of their choices, and the empathy and love you show them. I'll give you an example: 

Your child has homework. At 5, they need some reminder of it, so you ask her when she gets home from school, " Do you remember that you have some homework to do? Would you like to do your homework as soon as we get home, or after dinner?" 
Giving her a choice. And whatever she chooses, stick to it. If she says after dinner, then after dinner she should get it done. IF dinner comes and goes and she's off playing, you can "remind" her by asking, "Oh, it looks like you're having fun. Did you get your homework done?"
A likely response would be, "No....but I'm playing right now and I don't want to do my homework." Your response would be, " Well, that's a bummer. You said you'd do your hoomework after dinner. It has to be done today. You are free to keep playing when your homework is finished." 

Your daughter is 5. She is completely capable of dressing herself. I have a 5, 7, and 8yo. They all dress themselves. Sometimes the 8yo who has special needs requires our help, but he can do it. Often his clothes are backwards, but they're on. He does it himself, and that's what matters. 

She knows she frustrates you, and this makes her feel helpless. She thinks you cannot handle her, and at this point, she's right. Whether they are conscious of it or not, kids want rules and boundaries. They make them feel safer and more secure. 
If there is a specific time you leave the house every day, start there first. I'd say this to her:

"We leave at 8:00. (or whatever time you leave) Whether you are dressed or not, we are leaving. I have to be at school at 9:00, and I need 30 minutes to get there. So at 8:00, we are walking out the door." 

And then you leave her to it. LEAVE her. You cannot waste your time getting her dressed. You especially cannot waste your time getting frustrated with her and showing her that you can't handle her. Keep a set of clothes in the car, and maybe even an extra one at school. If she's not dressed at 8:00, she leaves in whatever it is she's wearing. DO NOT give her any extra time if she decides she wants to get dressed at the last minute. You must walk out the door at your designated time. If she refuses to walk, give her a choice. "Do you want to walk to the car, or be carried?" 
If she still refuses to walk, then she's leaving the decision up to you. She's trying to call your bluff. DO NOT let her win. Tell her, "Since you are unable to make this decision, I am making it for you." and you CARRY her to the car.  She will probably kick and scream all the way. Try to go "brain dead" on her. DO NOT engage in an argument with her. Do not show her that you are angry or frustrated. It's really damn hard, but it's possible and it works. 

Simply let her know what YOU are going to do. NOT what she is going to do. Give her choices, so when and if she fails, it was her choice to do so. NOT YOURS.  So, when she is being carried to the car in her jammies or underwear or whatever, then once you get in the car, you can give her the choice of getting dressed in the car or at school. Of course, if she's only wearing underwear, she should have something on before going into the school. But I can't imagine that she is so stubborn that she'd rather go into school half naked instead of just getting dressed int he car. 
Whatever she chooses, FOLLOW THROUGH.

Oh, and let her teacher know what you're doing. Most schools are familiar with Love and Logic. My sons' school uses it. All of the teachers are trained in it, and the counselor teaches Love and Logic classes, which is how I know about it. Until a few months ago, I was a yeller, spanker, and extensive time-out user. Now, I rarely have to raise my voice, I do not spank, and time-outs are a thing of the past. I swear to you.

They do use something similar to a time-out, but without that verbage and without the punishment aspect of it. We use "bedroom time" and/or "quiet/alone time". So, when one of them starts getting mouthy, all I have to do is say, "Uh oh. Do you need a little bedroom time?" and they know what that means and these days, they typically straighten up right away. If they don't straighten up, or answer me with the right tone, they have to go spend some quiet time alone, typically in their bedroom, until they are calm and either sweet or polite. Sometimes there's more added to that, depending on the situation.  When it sounds like they're calm, I'll ask them if they are. If it sound slike they have truly recovered, then I'll set a timer for 3 minutes. IF they are still calm and sweet at the end of that 3 minutes, they can come back out. If not, then we don't reset the timer until they are calm again. If it takes hours, then it does. It is their time lost, not yours. 

I'm sorry for all the info. This is just something I have been dealing with for a long time, and Love and Logic is really working for my kids. Some days, my middle step-son will spend his entire morning screaming and throwing stuff around his room because he's mad at me for not helping him get dressed. Or for some other silly reason. He is 7. He does not need my help getting dressed. He has gone to school without breakfast a couple times, because he is that stubborn. This does not affect me. It affects him. He's the hungry one. The lesson he will learn is that if he chooses to waste time crying over nothing, then he may not have time to eat breakfast and then he'll be hungry. 
His teacher knows we're using Love and Logic, and she is super supportive. All I have to do is give her a heads up when he's had a bad day, so they know what to expect and how to respond when he comes to school saying his mom didn't let him have breakfast. LOL

Check out the Love and Logic website. There's lots of good info there. I hope things improve for you soon. Like I said, do not ler her know you are angry or frustrated. If it is too difficult for you to put on a smile when you're pissed, then you need to walk away from her and let her know that you cannot be around her when she acts that way.

Good luck, mama! xoxoxo Let us know if things improve!  


wigglesmomma22
by Member on May. 4, 2012 at 12:21 PM

 I've been using these techniques for themost part for awhile.  IDK if its a sensory issue or not, but she had a great morning this morning.  Yesterday we went through her dresser and she chose the clothes that were acceptable to her.  I told her the rest of them we were going to wash in a special laundry detergent to see if that helped.  I want to rule out the detergant I'm using.  When she woke up this morning we "raced" to see who could get done the fastest.  She enjoyed herself and I wasn't in rage mode lol.  Keep in mind, I do a pretty good job of keeping my anger away from her.  I just walk away and then cry where she can't hear me.  Looking back, getting dressed has always been an issue, even when her dad and I lived together.  She asked if she can wear the outfit she has on today for tomorrow.  I'm not an overly huge fan of it, but worse case scenario, thats fine.  Hopefully we can continue down this path, but I"mnot holding my breath.  I've thought this battle was won many many times in the past.  But I did make a big deal about her getting a sticker on her sticker chart.  Cross your fingers for me lol.

Quoting JoyfulGirl:

I suggest using Love and Logic techniques. Love and Logic uses natural consequence and empathy to teach kids responsibility. It does not involve yelling, spanking, or even "time-outs". You give your child choices, lots of them. And give them plenty of opportunity to make mistakes at a young age when those mistakes have very minor consequences. 

When your child fails, which they are certainly going to do, they learn through the natural consequences of their choices, and the empathy and love you show them. I'll give you an example: 

Your child has homework. At 5, they need some reminder of it, so you ask her when she gets home from school, " Do you remember that you have some homework to do? Would you like to do your homework as soon as we get home, or after dinner?" 
Giving her a choice. And whatever she chooses, stick to it. If she says after dinner, then after dinner she should get it done. IF dinner comes and goes and she's off playing, you can "remind" her by asking, "Oh, it looks like you're having fun. Did you get your homework done?"
A likely response would be, "No....but I'm playing right now and I don't want to do my homework." Your response would be, " Well, that's a bummer. You said you'd do your hoomework after dinner. It has to be done today. You are free to keep playing when your homework is finished." 

Your daughter is 5. She is completely capable of dressing herself. I have a 5, 7, and 8yo. They all dress themselves. Sometimes the 8yo who has special needs requires our help, but he can do it. Often his clothes are backwards, but they're on. He does it himself, and that's what matters. 

She knows she frustrates you, and this makes her feel helpless. She thinks you cannot handle her, and at this point, she's right. Whether they are conscious of it or not, kids want rules and boundaries. They make them feel safer and more secure. 
If there is a specific time you leave the house every day, start there first. I'd say this to her:

"We leave at 8:00. (or whatever time you leave) Whether you are dressed or not, we are leaving. I have to be at school at 9:00, and I need 30 minutes to get there. So at 8:00, we are walking out the door." 

And then you leave her to it. LEAVE her. You cannot waste your time getting her dressed. You especially cannot waste your time getting frustrated with her and showing her that you can't handle her. Keep a set of clothes in the car, and maybe even an extra one at school. If she's not dressed at 8:00, she leaves in whatever it is she's wearing. DO NOT give her any extra time if she decides she wants to get dressed at the last minute. You must walk out the door at your designated time. If she refuses to walk, give her a choice. "Do you want to walk to the car, or be carried?" 
If she still refuses to walk, then she's leaving the decision up to you. She's trying to call your bluff. DO NOT let her win. Tell her, "Since you are unable to make this decision, I am making it for you." and you CARRY her to the car.  She will probably kick and scream all the way. Try to go "brain dead" on her. DO NOT engage in an argument with her. Do not show her that you are angry or frustrated. It's really damn hard, but it's possible and it works. 

Simply let her know what YOU are going to do. NOT what she is going to do. Give her choices, so when and if she fails, it was her choice to do so. NOT YOURS.  So, when she is being carried to the car in her jammies or underwear or whatever, then once you get in the car, you can give her the choice of getting dressed in the car or at school. Of course, if she's only wearing underwear, she should have something on before going into the school. But I can't imagine that she is so stubborn that she'd rather go into school half naked instead of just getting dressed int he car. 
Whatever she chooses, FOLLOW THROUGH.

Oh, and let her teacher know what you're doing. Most schools are familiar with Love and Logic. My sons' school uses it. All of the teachers are trained in it, and the counselor teaches Love and Logic classes, which is how I know about it. Until a few months ago, I was a yeller, spanker, and extensive time-out user. Now, I rarely have to raise my voice, I do not spank, and time-outs are a thing of the past. I swear to you.

They do use something similar to a time-out, but without that verbage and without the punishment aspect of it. We use "bedroom time" and/or "quiet/alone time". So, when one of them starts getting mouthy, all I have to do is say, "Uh oh. Do you need a little bedroom time?" and they know what that means and these days, they typically straighten up right away. If they don't straighten up, or answer me with the right tone, they have to go spend some quiet time alone, typically in their bedroom, until they are calm and either sweet or polite. Sometimes there's more added to that, depending on the situation.  When it sounds like they're calm, I'll ask them if they are. If it sound slike they have truly recovered, then I'll set a timer for 3 minutes. IF they are still calm and sweet at the end of that 3 minutes, they can come back out. If not, then we don't reset the timer until they are calm again. If it takes hours, then it does. It is their time lost, not yours. 

I'm sorry for all the info. This is just something I have been dealing with for a long time, and Love and Logic is really working for my kids. Some days, my middle step-son will spend his entire morning screaming and throwing stuff around his room because he's mad at me for not helping him get dressed. Or for some other silly reason. He is 7. He does not need my help getting dressed. He has gone to school without breakfast a couple times, because he is that stubborn. This does not affect me. It affects him. He's the hungry one. The lesson he will learn is that if he chooses to waste time crying over nothing, then he may not have time to eat breakfast and then he'll be hungry. 
His teacher knows we're using Love and Logic, and she is super supportive. All I have to do is give her a heads up when he's had a bad day, so they know what to expect and how to respond when he comes to school saying his mom didn't let him have breakfast. LOL

Check out the Love and Logic website. There's lots of good info there. I hope things improve for you soon. Like I said, do not ler her know you are angry or frustrated. If it is too difficult for you to put on a smile when you're pissed, then you need to walk away from her and let her know that you cannot be around her when she acts that way.

Good luck, mama! xoxoxo Let us know if things improve!  

 

navewife
by Member on May. 4, 2012 at 2:04 PM
My dd tried to go through that but I finally said she didn't have a choice, and if she cried then she stays in her room till she stops or time to leave, so if she misses breakfast because she chooses to throw down oh well. I just totally ignore her while she is acting out. She eventually figured out that her fits weren't doing anything and stopped. Good luck
Posted on CafeMom Mobile
emmy526
by Silver Member on May. 4, 2012 at 2:25 PM

how about just taking her to school(or whereever) in her pj's and make her change her clothes at school?   Believe me, she'll stop after a couple days....we used this tactic many times at daycare for noncompliant children in the morning. 

Add your quick reply below:
You must be a member to reply to this post.
Welcome to CafeMom
join our community and talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)

We won't show your age or birthday to anyone unless you want us to!


Featured