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Help before I strangle this child

Posted by on May. 22, 2012 at 7:56 PM
  • 47 Replies

Okay, not really. Just as disclaimer, no I'm not about to do bodily harm to my child. But my goodness I'm losing my mind.

This child WILL NOT LISTEN. She'll be 4 next month. I'm expecting and her behavior has definitely gone downhill in the last few months. I know that can have an affect but this is getting ridiculous.

When you tell her to do something, or not do something, it's like she doesn't even hear you. You have to tell her 20 times to do something and usually she ends up with something in time-out or a privelage removed or *something* before you finally get to the end of it. She does not stop moving, not for a second. I know, all preschoolers have an abundance of energy. But I've seen her around groups of other kids her age. She makes the other 3 & 4 year olds look like calm, silent children. It's like she has absolutely zero ability to focus.

This evening she has dance class. She loves dance and looks forward to it all week. I had to tell her about 7 times to put on her leotard. Then I told her to go get her shoes on and it was no-go. She was too busy jumping around in a box and screaming (in a fun way, not like a fit). I had to ask her numerous times to use her inside voice. We told her if she didn't get her shoes on she wasn't going and she flipped out saying she wanted to go. But then she just sat there. She finally sat down by her shoes and then asked where they were. She just sat there playing as DH and I were talking. I told her that her time was almost up for having her shoes on and she told us she *did* have her shoes on. She didn't. :/ Great, so now we've added lying to the mix.

Physically forcing her to do these things rarely works. She's very independent and hates being helped with things she can do. If you sat her down and tried to put her shoe on her, she'd take it back off just so she could put it back on herself. We're running out of things we can threaten or take away. We do make consequences, but they don't seem to faze her at all. Yesterday I ended up putting her entire playroom in time-out for the rest of the day and though she made a small fuss about it (a 3 second fake cry/whine), it didn't truly faze her at all. Time-outs don't do anything when she's like this because all that does is give her an automatic 3 minutes to continue not doing what she was supposed to do, she's only stalling in a different location.

I thought temper tantrums were bad (and we're still dealing with those, too, btw!), but this I don't know what to do with. Tantrums, though they suck and I often feel like I'm floundering, at least seem to have more options for dealing with. What am I supposed to do when she simply refuses to do what she's told, it's something I'm physically incapible of enforcing, and there are no logical "threats" to make?

For example the other day when we were out and headed home and she refused to get in the car seat? At 34 weeks pg and her quite strong, there is simply no way I could force her into the seat. We'd already had our playdate and our fun and we were headed home. There wasn't anything logical to take away, like if we were on our way out to somewhere she wanted to go. There was nothing else fun planned for the rest of the day to take away. I took away everything within reach in the car that she might be able to play with to distract herself, though none of it mattered to her at the moment. She had already been defiant for too long (just getting *to* the car!) for me to be able to offer a reward for cooperation. I'm not going to offer her something out of the ordinary just for doing what she should have done already.

We're thinking we need some sort of behavior chart or reward system, but we're not sure exactly what it should look like. I know I'd rather reinforce good behavior than focus on when she's bad. Though with the way she's been lately that would be a hard thing to do. I don't even know if that's the right direction to go or not.

So what in the heck do we do at this point?? Even the serious "mom-tone" doesn't do a thing. That used to get her every time. If she was having trouble minding I'd get "that" tone and she knew I meant business. Now, doesn't faze her a bit. Calm voice, quiet voice, loud voice, normal, raised, yelling, silence, mom, dad.....none of it makes the slightest bit of difference.


by on May. 22, 2012 at 7:56 PM
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Replies (1-10):
-PB
by Gold Member on May. 22, 2012 at 9:05 PM
1 mom liked this

BUMP!

Cara5
by on May. 22, 2012 at 9:17 PM
2 moms liked this

Whoop that ass!!!! 

Ok, obviously not... dont really do it!  Maybe in your head, itll make you feel better for a split second! 

Seriously.  That kid needs some consequences for her actions.  Not always the same thing as punishment, but if you are telling her 20 times to put her shoes on she knows that the first time means nothing, neither does the second time and in 10 minutes you will still be signing this silly song about putting her shoes on..ha ha, thats funny!  

Here is what I do: 

Sara Jane, put your shoes on sweetheart, its time to go to dance. 

2 minutes later, no shoes:

"Sara Jane, put your shoes on now or you will go to time out." Use a firm voice, but dont yell or be angry. 

Give her about 10 seconds to start putting her shoes on and then start counting.   

For my 4 and 6 year olds, if I have asked them to go do, get or stop something and I am counting they know that it means "X # of minutes in time out".  If I get to 12 before there are shoes on her feet, then shes got 12 minutes in the corner. 

If she hop to and starts getting her shoes on as soon as I say "one" they usually get a pass, but a stern look...but our system is solidly in place.   

If you want to try something like this I recommend simply using a "1, 2, 3" and then to the corner for 4 minutes, then try again over and over and over till she gets it.  You will miss things, you will be late for things, you will feel like a fool standing in the parking lot filing your nails to show your dd that you couldn't give two shits about the fact that she is on her 7th time out sitting outside the car because shes refusing to buckle up...but eventually it will stick and things will get better. 

I highly recommend the "1,2,3 magic" book to get an idea of the tactic, but id take the follow through idea with a grain of salt.. for example, the book advocates locking a child in their room if they wont stay for time out, I think thats barbaric, but the idea behind the communication in the book is good.

After a couple weeks of really good follow through, you will discover that you have a kid that will teleport to where shes supposed to be every time you say "two" LOL  

Mommy2Phenley
by Member on May. 22, 2012 at 10:34 PM

We actually do use this method (1,2,3-consequence). It's just not fazing her anymore. She doesn't care if she gets put in time out or if something gets taken away. We didn't put her in time out before dance because we didn't want her to be late. Normally, I don't stand for telling her the same thing a thousand times. I tell her once or twice then I count and there's a consequence. I think lately DH and I have become so frustrated that we just let ourselves get stuck in a "repeat ourselves" loop because everything we've been trying over the past few months has done nothing.

We count a lot and it used to work like a charm. Now she doesn't care if you get to 3 and assign a consequence. She didn't want to stop to put her shoes on. It didn't matter to her if she was on the floor, by her shoes, in her room, in the corner....if she's in a time-out, then she's not doing what she was told. Which is exactly what she's going for. So lately, putting her in time-out gives her exactly what she's wanting! The other day getting in the seat, it was very hot out, I was in need of water and to get my feet up. She would have been perfectly content being considered to be in "time out" over and over. She basically had herself in time-out, sitting on the floorboard of the car. It was a busy parking lot, so outside the car wasn't a safe option.

An example of how she doesn't care and counting has stopped working: She had made a mess with some school materials. I asked her to clean them up, DH even offered to sit on the floor and help her. She didn't move to help. I told her she had to 3 or those things were going in time out. She jumped up when I was at about 2, but then just stood there looking at the stuff. So I said they were going to time out. I told her if she didn't start helping that this time the entire school room (which she loves more than her play room) would be on time out for the evening. This time she moved as far as sitting by the mess. The next consequence for not helping was that school materials are not allowed out of the school room for a week. She didn't care about any of this. She cared enough to recognize what the consequence was and not be happy about it, but not enough to actually stop it from getting worse. (btw, I use time out for the things more often than for her because that is what usually has more of an affect on her. Even before time outs for her didn't bother her much but having her things in time out was the end of the world)

I've never tried the x # of minutes in time out for how high I count, but she doesn't seem to have a concept of time, yet, so I'm not sure if she'd get it or not. And again, these days it would only affect me, not her. She simply doesn't care if she gets put in time out anymore. I can try it with a timer and see if she starts making the connection with the time. Do we need to change time out? Is there a way to make it worse? Right now it's a chair in her room that she sits in for 3 minutes (soon to be 4). There's stuffed animals and books in her room, but neither are within reach from the time out chair. She just sits and squirms and sings, not caring at all.


Quoting Cara5:

Whoop that ass!!!! 

Ok, obviously not... dont really do it!  Maybe in your head, itll make you feel better for a split second! 

Seriously.  That kid needs some consequences for her actions.  Not always the same thing as punishment, but if you are telling her 20 times to put her shoes on she knows that the first time means nothing, neither does the second time and in 10 minutes you will still be signing this silly song about putting her shoes on..ha ha, thats funny!  

Here is what I do: 

Sara Jane, put your shoes on sweetheart, its time to go to dance. 

2 minutes later, no shoes:

"Sara Jane, put your shoes on now or you will go to time out." Use a firm voice, but dont yell or be angry. 

Give her about 10 seconds to start putting her shoes on and then start counting.   

For my 4 and 6 year olds, if I have asked them to go do, get or stop something and I am counting they know that it means "X # of minutes in time out".  If I get to 12 before there are shoes on her feet, then shes got 12 minutes in the corner. 

If she hop to and starts getting her shoes on as soon as I say "one" they usually get a pass, but a stern look...but our system is solidly in place.   

If you want to try something like this I recommend simply using a "1, 2, 3" and then to the corner for 4 minutes, then try again over and over and over till she gets it.  You will miss things, you will be late for things, you will feel like a fool standing in the parking lot filing your nails to show your dd that you couldn't give two shits about the fact that she is on her 7th time out sitting outside the car because shes refusing to buckle up...but eventually it will stick and things will get better. 

I highly recommend the "1,2,3 magic" book to get an idea of the tactic, but id take the follow through idea with a grain of salt.. for example, the book advocates locking a child in their room if they wont stay for time out, I think thats barbaric, but the idea behind the communication in the book is good.

After a couple weeks of really good follow through, you will discover that you have a kid that will teleport to where shes supposed to be every time you say "two" LOL  


Cara5
by on May. 22, 2012 at 11:54 PM

Did you actually lock her out of the school room for the evening and not allow her to get the craft stuff out for a week?

Quoting Mommy2Phenley:

We actually do use this method (1,2,3-consequence). It's just not fazing her anymore. She doesn't care if she gets put in time out or if something gets taken away. We didn't put her in time out before dance because we didn't want her to be late. Normally, I don't stand for telling her the same thing a thousand times. I tell her once or twice then I count and there's a consequence. I think lately DH and I have become so frustrated that we just let ourselves get stuck in a "repeat ourselves" loop because everything we've been trying over the past few months has done nothing.

We count a lot and it used to work like a charm. Now she doesn't care if you get to 3 and assign a consequence. She didn't want to stop to put her shoes on. It didn't matter to her if she was on the floor, by her shoes, in her room, in the corner....if she's in a time-out, then she's not doing what she was told. Which is exactly what she's going for. So lately, putting her in time-out gives her exactly what she's wanting! The other day getting in the seat, it was very hot out, I was in need of water and to get my feet up. She would have been perfectly content being considered to be in "time out" over and over. She basically had herself in time-out, sitting on the floorboard of the car. It was a busy parking lot, so outside the car wasn't a safe option.

An example of how she doesn't care and counting has stopped working: She had made a mess with some school materials. I asked her to clean them up, DH even offered to sit on the floor and help her. She didn't move to help. I told her she had to 3 or those things were going in time out. She jumped up when I was at about 2, but then just stood there looking at the stuff. So I said they were going to time out. I told her if she didn't start helping that this time the entire school room (which she loves more than her play room) would be on time out for the evening. This time she moved as far as sitting by the mess. The next consequence for not helping was that school materials are not allowed out of the school room for a week. She didn't care about any of this. She cared enough to recognize what the consequence was and not be happy about it, but not enough to actually stop it from getting worse. (btw, I use time out for the things more often than for her because that is what usually has more of an affect on her. Even before time outs for her didn't bother her much but having her things in time out was the end of the world)

I've never tried the x # of minutes in time out for how high I count, but she doesn't seem to have a concept of time, yet, so I'm not sure if she'd get it or not. And again, these days it would only affect me, not her. She simply doesn't care if she gets put in time out anymore. I can try it with a timer and see if she starts making the connection with the time. Do we need to change time out? Is there a way to make it worse? Right now it's a chair in her room that she sits in for 3 minutes (soon to be 4). There's stuffed animals and books in her room, but neither are within reach from the time out chair. She just sits and squirms and sings, not caring at all.


Quoting Cara5:

Whoop that ass!!!! 

Ok, obviously not... dont really do it!  Maybe in your head, itll make you feel better for a split second! 

Seriously.  That kid needs some consequences for her actions.  Not always the same thing as punishment, but if you are telling her 20 times to put her shoes on she knows that the first time means nothing, neither does the second time and in 10 minutes you will still be signing this silly song about putting her shoes on..ha ha, thats funny!  

Here is what I do: 

Sara Jane, put your shoes on sweetheart, its time to go to dance. 

2 minutes later, no shoes:

"Sara Jane, put your shoes on now or you will go to time out." Use a firm voice, but dont yell or be angry. 

Give her about 10 seconds to start putting her shoes on and then start counting.   

For my 4 and 6 year olds, if I have asked them to go do, get or stop something and I am counting they know that it means "X # of minutes in time out".  If I get to 12 before there are shoes on her feet, then shes got 12 minutes in the corner. 

If she hop to and starts getting her shoes on as soon as I say "one" they usually get a pass, but a stern look...but our system is solidly in place.   

If you want to try something like this I recommend simply using a "1, 2, 3" and then to the corner for 4 minutes, then try again over and over and over till she gets it.  You will miss things, you will be late for things, you will feel like a fool standing in the parking lot filing your nails to show your dd that you couldn't give two shits about the fact that she is on her 7th time out sitting outside the car because shes refusing to buckle up...but eventually it will stick and things will get better. 

I highly recommend the "1,2,3 magic" book to get an idea of the tactic, but id take the follow through idea with a grain of salt.. for example, the book advocates locking a child in their room if they wont stay for time out, I think thats barbaric, but the idea behind the communication in the book is good.

After a couple weeks of really good follow through, you will discover that you have a kid that will teleport to where shes supposed to be every time you say "two" LOL  



 Lauren & Cara MOMS of SIX great kids!!! 

AM-BRAT
by Amber on May. 22, 2012 at 11:58 PM
Is she an only?

Are you pregnant? Any life things happening?

Some kids are just turds. Mu almost 4 yo is sometimes distraction works, sometimes just holding her til she stops, sometimes but whoopins and sometimes plain ol time alone in her room.

Gl mama.
Posted on CafeMom Mobile
Mommy2Phenley
by Member on May. 23, 2012 at 12:27 AM

It was today. Yes, the school room was closed the rest of the day. I plan on keeping it closed all week when we're not in there together so nothing leaves. I only told her that nothing leaves the school room for a week. She normally has free access to the school materials and likes to play with them in other ways around the house. So we'll still go in and do school during the day, but when we're done, the door will be closed, so she can't access the stuff to play with on her own.

We always follow through. Or at least I do. DH isn't quite as good at being realistic and will sometimes make rash threats that will never be followed through on. I try to discreetly call him on them before she does so he can amend. He's getting better. I also remind her any time it comes up. Like when she was told no sleepovers the following weekend and then she asked for one, I didn't just say "no", I said "no, you don't get a sleepover this weekend because you didn't mind leaving grandma's last time, remember?" I don't dwell on it, but I do make sure she's able to make the connection if it's not something immediate.

Quoting Cara5:

Did you actually lock her out of the school room for the evening and not allow her to get the craft stuff out for a week?

Quoting Mommy2Phenley:

We actually do use this method (1,2,3-consequence). It's just not fazing her anymore. She doesn't care if she gets put in time out or if something gets taken away. We didn't put her in time out before dance because we didn't want her to be late. Normally, I don't stand for telling her the same thing a thousand times. I tell her once or twice then I count and there's a consequence. I think lately DH and I have become so frustrated that we just let ourselves get stuck in a "repeat ourselves" loop because everything we've been trying over the past few months has done nothing.

We count a lot and it used to work like a charm. Now she doesn't care if you get to 3 and assign a consequence. She didn't want to stop to put her shoes on. It didn't matter to her if she was on the floor, by her shoes, in her room, in the corner....if she's in a time-out, then she's not doing what she was told. Which is exactly what she's going for. So lately, putting her in time-out gives her exactly what she's wanting! The other day getting in the seat, it was very hot out, I was in need of water and to get my feet up. She would have been perfectly content being considered to be in "time out" over and over. She basically had herself in time-out, sitting on the floorboard of the car. It was a busy parking lot, so outside the car wasn't a safe option.

An example of how she doesn't care and counting has stopped working: She had made a mess with some school materials. I asked her to clean them up, DH even offered to sit on the floor and help her. She didn't move to help. I told her she had to 3 or those things were going in time out. She jumped up when I was at about 2, but then just stood there looking at the stuff. So I said they were going to time out. I told her if she didn't start helping that this time the entire school room (which she loves more than her play room) would be on time out for the evening. This time she moved as far as sitting by the mess. The next consequence for not helping was that school materials are not allowed out of the school room for a week. She didn't care about any of this. She cared enough to recognize what the consequence was and not be happy about it, but not enough to actually stop it from getting worse. (btw, I use time out for the things more often than for her because that is what usually has more of an affect on her. Even before time outs for her didn't bother her much but having her things in time out was the end of the world)

I've never tried the x # of minutes in time out for how high I count, but she doesn't seem to have a concept of time, yet, so I'm not sure if she'd get it or not. And again, these days it would only affect me, not her. She simply doesn't care if she gets put in time out anymore. I can try it with a timer and see if she starts making the connection with the time. Do we need to change time out? Is there a way to make it worse? Right now it's a chair in her room that she sits in for 3 minutes (soon to be 4). There's stuffed animals and books in her room, but neither are within reach from the time out chair. She just sits and squirms and sings, not caring at all.


Quoting Cara5:

Whoop that ass!!!! 

Ok, obviously not... dont really do it!  Maybe in your head, itll make you feel better for a split second! 

Seriously.  That kid needs some consequences for her actions.  Not always the same thing as punishment, but if you are telling her 20 times to put her shoes on she knows that the first time means nothing, neither does the second time and in 10 minutes you will still be signing this silly song about putting her shoes on..ha ha, thats funny!  

Here is what I do: 

Sara Jane, put your shoes on sweetheart, its time to go to dance. 

2 minutes later, no shoes:

"Sara Jane, put your shoes on now or you will go to time out." Use a firm voice, but dont yell or be angry. 

Give her about 10 seconds to start putting her shoes on and then start counting.   

For my 4 and 6 year olds, if I have asked them to go do, get or stop something and I am counting they know that it means "X # of minutes in time out".  If I get to 12 before there are shoes on her feet, then shes got 12 minutes in the corner. 

If she hop to and starts getting her shoes on as soon as I say "one" they usually get a pass, but a stern look...but our system is solidly in place.   

If you want to try something like this I recommend simply using a "1, 2, 3" and then to the corner for 4 minutes, then try again over and over and over till she gets it.  You will miss things, you will be late for things, you will feel like a fool standing in the parking lot filing your nails to show your dd that you couldn't give two shits about the fact that she is on her 7th time out sitting outside the car because shes refusing to buckle up...but eventually it will stick and things will get better. 

I highly recommend the "1,2,3 magic" book to get an idea of the tactic, but id take the follow through idea with a grain of salt.. for example, the book advocates locking a child in their room if they wont stay for time out, I think thats barbaric, but the idea behind the communication in the book is good.

After a couple weeks of really good follow through, you will discover that you have a kid that will teleport to where shes supposed to be every time you say "two" LOL  




LilDzMamma2010
by on May. 23, 2012 at 12:40 AM
How early did u start this like what age???

Quoting Cara5:

Whoop that ass!!!! 

Ok, obviously not... dont really do it!  Maybe in your head, itll make you feel better for a split second! 

Seriously.  That kid needs some consequences for her actions.  Not always the same thing as punishment, but if you are telling her 20 times to put her shoes on she knows that the first time means nothing, neither does the second time and in 10 minutes you will still be signing this silly song about putting her shoes on..ha ha, thats funny!  

Here is what I do: 

Sara Jane, put your shoes on sweetheart, its time to go to dance. 

2 minutes later, no shoes:

"Sara Jane, put your shoes on now or you will go to time out." Use a firm voice, but dont yell or be angry. 

Give her about 10 seconds to start putting her shoes on and then start counting.   

For my 4 and 6 year olds, if I have asked them to go do, get or stop something and I am counting they know that it means "X # of minutes in time out".  If I get to 12 before there are shoes on her feet, then shes got 12 minutes in the corner. 

If she hop to and starts getting her shoes on as soon as I say "one" they usually get a pass, but a stern look...but our system is solidly in place.   

If you want to try something like this I recommend simply using a "1, 2, 3" and then to the corner for 4 minutes, then try again over and over and over till she gets it.  You will miss things, you will be late for things, you will feel like a fool standing in the parking lot filing your nails to show your dd that you couldn't give two shits about the fact that she is on her 7th time out sitting outside the car because shes refusing to buckle up...but eventually it will stick and things will get better. 

I highly recommend the "1,2,3 magic" book to get an idea of the tactic, but id take the follow through idea with a grain of salt.. for example, the book advocates locking a child in their room if they wont stay for time out, I think thats barbaric, but the idea behind the communication in the book is good.

After a couple weeks of really good follow through, you will discover that you have a kid that will teleport to where shes supposed to be every time you say "two" LOL  

Posted on CafeMom Mobile
Mrs_Incredible
by on May. 23, 2012 at 12:43 AM

Two words: follow through. You shouldn't have to say something 20 times for it to get done it should be once (or twice) and then consequence. Every time. I agree with Cara5. 123 Magic was a lifesaver for our family. Yes, we miss things, yes we're late sometimes, but it's happening far less because our kids know we're not messing around and we are more stubborn than they are. 

Mrs_Incredible
by on May. 23, 2012 at 12:44 AM

The book says that around 2-4 is good to start. We started at 2 and 5 and now at 4 and 7, my boys know the drill by heart. I have to say "One" and it's done 95% of the time. 

Quoting LilDzMamma2010:

How early did u start this like what age???

Quoting Cara5:

Whoop that ass!!!! 

Ok, obviously not... dont really do it!  Maybe in your head, itll make you feel better for a split second! 

Seriously.  That kid needs some consequences for her actions.  Not always the same thing as punishment, but if you are telling her 20 times to put her shoes on she knows that the first time means nothing, neither does the second time and in 10 minutes you will still be signing this silly song about putting her shoes on..ha ha, thats funny!  

Here is what I do: 

Sara Jane, put your shoes on sweetheart, its time to go to dance. 

2 minutes later, no shoes:

"Sara Jane, put your shoes on now or you will go to time out." Use a firm voice, but dont yell or be angry. 

Give her about 10 seconds to start putting her shoes on and then start counting.   

For my 4 and 6 year olds, if I have asked them to go do, get or stop something and I am counting they know that it means "X # of minutes in time out".  If I get to 12 before there are shoes on her feet, then shes got 12 minutes in the corner. 

If she hop to and starts getting her shoes on as soon as I say "one" they usually get a pass, but a stern look...but our system is solidly in place.   

If you want to try something like this I recommend simply using a "1, 2, 3" and then to the corner for 4 minutes, then try again over and over and over till she gets it.  You will miss things, you will be late for things, you will feel like a fool standing in the parking lot filing your nails to show your dd that you couldn't give two shits about the fact that she is on her 7th time out sitting outside the car because shes refusing to buckle up...but eventually it will stick and things will get better. 

I highly recommend the "1,2,3 magic" book to get an idea of the tactic, but id take the follow through idea with a grain of salt.. for example, the book advocates locking a child in their room if they wont stay for time out, I think thats barbaric, but the idea behind the communication in the book is good.

After a couple weeks of really good follow through, you will discover that you have a kid that will teleport to where shes supposed to be every time you say "two" LOL  


Jenn8604
by Gold Member on May. 23, 2012 at 12:49 AM
maybe try a corner in the hall and she has to look at it the whole time. she turns around to see whats going on shes there another minute. i dont think time outs in her room bug her. so a new place might and not being able to look at anything but the corner.

Quoting Mommy2Phenley:

We actually do use this method (1,2,3-consequence). It's just not fazing her anymore. She doesn't care if she gets put in time out or if something gets taken away. We didn't put her in time out before dance because we didn't want her to be late. Normally, I don't stand for telling her the same thing a thousand times. I tell her once or twice then I count and there's a consequence. I think lately DH and I have become so frustrated that we just let ourselves get stuck in a "repeat ourselves" loop because everything we've been trying over the past few months has done nothing.

We count a lot and it used to work like a charm. Now she doesn't care if you get to 3 and assign a consequence. She didn't want to stop to put her shoes on. It didn't matter to her if she was on the floor, by her shoes, in her room, in the corner....if she's in a time-out, then she's not doing what she was told. Which is exactly what she's going for. So lately, putting her in time-out gives her exactly what she's wanting! The other day getting in the seat, it was very hot out, I was in need of water and to get my feet up. She would have been perfectly content being considered to be in "time out" over and over. She basically had herself in time-out, sitting on the floorboard of the car. It was a busy parking lot, so outside the car wasn't a safe option.

An example of how she doesn't care and counting has stopped working: She had made a mess with some school materials. I asked her to clean them up, DH even offered to sit on the floor and help her. She didn't move to help. I told her she had to 3 or those things were going in time out. She jumped up when I was at about 2, but then just stood there looking at the stuff. So I said they were going to time out. I told her if she didn't start helping that this time the entire school room (which she loves more than her play room) would be on time out for the evening. This time she moved as far as sitting by the mess. The next consequence for not helping was that school materials are not allowed out of the school room for a week. She didn't care about any of this. She cared enough to recognize what the consequence was and not be happy about it, but not enough to actually stop it from getting worse. (btw, I use time out for the things more often than for her because that is what usually has more of an affect on her. Even before time outs for her didn't bother her much but having her things in time out was the end of the world)

I've never tried the x # of minutes in time out for how high I count, but she doesn't seem to have a concept of time, yet, so I'm not sure if she'd get it or not. And again, these days it would only affect me, not her. She simply doesn't care if she gets put in time out anymore. I can try it with a timer and see if she starts making the connection with the time. Do we need to change time out? Is there a way to make it worse? Right now it's a chair in her room that she sits in for 3 minutes (soon to be 4). There's stuffed animals and books in her room, but neither are within reach from the time out chair. She just sits and squirms and sings, not caring at all.



Quoting Cara5:

Whoop that ass!!!! 

Ok, obviously not... dont really do it!  Maybe in your head, itll make you feel better for a split second! 

Seriously.  That kid needs some consequences for her actions.  Not always the same thing as punishment, but if you are telling her 20 times to put her shoes on she knows that the first time means nothing, neither does the second time and in 10 minutes you will still be signing this silly song about putting her shoes on..ha ha, thats funny!  

Here is what I do: 

Sara Jane, put your shoes on sweetheart, its time to go to dance. 

2 minutes later, no shoes:

"Sara Jane, put your shoes on now or you will go to time out." Use a firm voice, but dont yell or be angry. 

Give her about 10 seconds to start putting her shoes on and then start counting.   

For my 4 and 6 year olds, if I have asked them to go do, get or stop something and I am counting they know that it means "X # of minutes in time out".  If I get to 12 before there are shoes on her feet, then shes got 12 minutes in the corner. 

If she hop to and starts getting her shoes on as soon as I say "one" they usually get a pass, but a stern look...but our system is solidly in place.   

If you want to try something like this I recommend simply using a "1, 2, 3" and then to the corner for 4 minutes, then try again over and over and over till she gets it.  You will miss things, you will be late for things, you will feel like a fool standing in the parking lot filing your nails to show your dd that you couldn't give two shits about the fact that she is on her 7th time out sitting outside the car because shes refusing to buckle up...but eventually it will stick and things will get better. 

I highly recommend the "1,2,3 magic" book to get an idea of the tactic, but id take the follow through idea with a grain of salt.. for example, the book advocates locking a child in their room if they wont stay for time out, I think thats barbaric, but the idea behind the communication in the book is good.

After a couple weeks of really good follow through, you will discover that you have a kid that will teleport to where shes supposed to be every time you say "two" LOL  


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