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**NEED advice** on whats "fair" custody and visitation

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 I have 16 month old twin daughters. Their father and I are splitting apart. I want to be civil, I have no idea what to do or where to go with this.........

I am  not worried about being a single mom per say as he does very very little other then split the rent with me and watches the girls ( for "free") on his days off so I don't have to pay the babysitter( which I pay 100% otherwise plus 100% groceries, he pays the utilities) He is a horrible partner and is making me miserable. He is not a "bad" dad. He plays with them. Reads to them et cetra but god help 'em if they need a actual meal or a regularly scheduled nap.

I do believe fathers and daughters have rights to each other and I want to do nothing to damage their father/daughter relationship.

I expect him to pay some child support as he makes about 2,000 more then I do every month. I want to try and come to an agreement before I go to finalize with a lawyer.

Any advice on what is "fair"? Two days one night a week in his care? (Nights may be an issuegoing crazy as my daughters are not yet weaned from the breast and nurse in the wee hours) Every other weekend? I have no idea...what a mess....

PS: PLEASE no hate mail. I do not need to hear about  marriage ( I am thanking every GOD possible that I refused marriage!!!!) or any other hateful, not helpful nonsense. REAL ADVISE ONLY THANK YOU!



****Update/response****

Thank you so much to everyone who posted. I do appreciate the majority of you! Im trying to remember and respond to everything I read no offense if I miss something!

First off to the lady who posted about the father can take them out of state without my consent and all that nonsense...well I don't know where you live but that is actually called parental kidnapping is is very much against the law. Maybe your trying to be an alarmist or maybe you don't know what you are talking about I don't know either way you are very misinformed.

Breastfeeding and weaning people! Oh my goodness!!! What a debate! I was not trying to say that he should not have them because they still nurse just stating a fact of the matter. Related point: I do express breast milk when I go to work. On the days he is home with them sometimes all the bottles will be gone( and scattered about the house) other days the bottles have not been touched at all which means they went 9 hours without milk...WHY might you ask? Because he felt they ate enough already or because he forgot or because they didn't seem to need it....well they ALWAYS need it anytime anyone else watched them regardless of the amount they ate that day so.....you tell me about that huh? Anyhow my daughters LOVE to nurse and I have no intention of weaning them before they are ready and I don't care what any one thinks about that.

To the lady who asked why I don't just go to a lawyer and figure it all then....because that way will cost way more money.

To the lady who asked why go to a lawyer at all because I am well aware that verbal agreements do not stand ground. What ever agreement is reached will be a legal verifiable document.

A few people posted about child support. I am not saying I am going to ask him nice to give me a check every month. I am saying I expect child support and am therefore going through my county to secure that.

A lot of you said " well just talk it over with him"....Well I have tried that/am trying that. His response " well you're going to make sure you get what you want anyway" and he storms off. Not at all a lets be grown ups and figure out this giant fuckin mess we're all in kinda thing at all. So I am going to draft an offer of agreement, take it to a lawyer and go from there. That is why I ask what might be fair. Dude is a immature dickwad but he is also the father of my beautiful precious amazing daughters. If they decide they want nothing to do with each other when they are older that is their choice to make. I will not take that choice from any of them.

That is all I an wrap my brin around at the moment I hope that answerd all the questions....

Thanks again! Most of you are awesome!

by on Dec. 3, 2012 at 12:26 AM
Replies (41-50):
offrdngal
by Terri on Dec. 3, 2012 at 8:49 PM
Quoting cb.5:



You're welcome. If you can't find them, for your state, Indiana's are online. Use them as your guide.

PinkButterfly66
by Bronze Member on Dec. 3, 2012 at 9:21 PM

Personally, I'd just allow day visits ... no over nights until the girls are old enough to fend for themselves...like go to the fridge to get something to eat or call for pizza.  I would not trust him with toddlers overnight at all.

cb.5
by on Dec. 3, 2012 at 9:29 PM
1 mom liked this


Quoting PinkButterfly66:

Personally, I'd just allow day visits ... no over nights until the girls are old enough to fend for themselves...like go to the fridge to get something to eat or call for pizza.  I would not trust him with toddlers overnight at all.

Thank you, it is so refreshing to have people who actually have something worthwhile to say!

CampClan
by Bronze Member on Dec. 3, 2012 at 10:31 PM
1 mom liked this

I just wanted to reply to this. I worked for the local children services in my town. I basically had to run legal docs to the courthouse to be filed. I spcifically asked about my ex fiancee's rights: we were never married, I left him before I had our son, neither of us has filed for custody or visitation rights, he is paying child support, there is a DNA test on file with the courts, my H at that time (we are now divorced) did NOT adopt my DS but we did do a legal change of name & had DS's last name changed to my married name. I was told that because there is nothing stating either of us have custody my ex fiancee could go to DS's school with the DNA test & say he was taking DS. Of course, since I had no info on dad listed with the school they would call me (& I would in turn call the police) but there would be nothing the school could do to stop him from leaving with DS.

I just wanted to let you know it IS possible for the other parent to leave with the child & there be nothing you could do because you had no proof you had custody. So, please look into this with your local courts & find out what it would take for you to make sure this would never happen to you & your girls.

****Update/response****

Thank you so much to everyone who posted. I do appreciate the majority of you! Im trying to remember and respond to everything I read no offense if I miss something!

First off to the lady who posted about the father can take them out of state without my consent and all that nonsense...well I don't know where you live but that is actually called parental kidnapping is is very much against the law. Maybe your trying to be an alarmist or maybe you don't know what you are talking about I don't know either way you are very misinformed.

Breastfeeding and weaning people! Oh my goodness!!! What a debate! I was not trying to say that he should not have them because they still nurse just stating a fact of the matter. Related point: I do express breast milk when I go to work. On the days he is home with them sometimes all the bottles will be gone( and scattered about the house) other days the bottles have not been touched at all which means they went 9 hours without milk...WHY might you ask? Because he felt they ate enough already or because he forgot or because they didn't seem to need it....well they ALWAYS need it anytime anyone else watched them regardless of the amount they ate that day so.....you tell me about that huh? Anyhow my daughters LOVE to nurse and I have no intention of weaning them before they are ready and I don't care what any one thinks about that.

To the lady who asked why I don't just go to a lawyer and figure it all then....because that way will cost way more money.

To the lady who asked why go to a lawyer at all because I am well aware that verbal agreements do not stand ground. What ever agreement is reached will be a legal verifiable document.

A few people posted about child support. I am not saying I am going to ask him nice to give me a check every month. I am saying I expect child support and am therefore going through my county to secure that.

A lot of you said " well just talk it over with him"....Well I have tried that/am trying that. His response " well you're going to make sure you get what you want anyway" and he storms off. Not at all a lets be grown ups and figure out this giant fuckin mess we're all in kinda thing at all. So I am going to draft an offer of agreement, take it to a lawyer and go from there. That is why I ask what might be fair. Dude is a immature dickwad but he is also the father of my beautiful precious amazing daughters. If they decide they want nothing to do with each other when they are older that is their choice to make. I will not take that choice from any of them.

That is all I an wrap my brin around at the moment I hope that answerd all the questions....

Thanks again! Most of you are awesome!


spotsmom
by on Dec. 3, 2012 at 11:36 PM

OK, if he's not asking for anything (as in being too much of a dick to talk rationally about it), then just tell him what you want. If you think overnight will be too hard for your girls, then tell him they will do that when they are older. I'm assuming he is just prevaricating and wanting you to throw the first ball out there, to see where your head is at.I think he can have them on his days off, and then have them back at your house right before bed. I think visitation/shared custody/whatever ou want to call it should never be about what the parents want. It should be about what is best for the children. If overnight stays with one parent would a hardship on the child, then it's not something that should be done until the child is ready. Those parents who scream about their "rights" are all too aften too willing to dismiss what is best for the child. Yes, yes, bonding with both parents is what is best. But very little bonding is gonig to happen when they are asleep, and at night, right now mama is who they are going to want. And that's who they should have until they are old enough to do otherwise. Dad will have plenty of time to bond during the day. If he insists, you could try to do a sleepover, see how it goes. If they scream all night, then I would wait and try a few months later. 

CoeyG
by on Dec. 4, 2012 at 12:51 AM


Quoting CampClan:

I just wanted to reply to this. I worked for the local children services in my town. I basically had to run legal docs to the courthouse to be filed. I spcifically asked about my ex fiancee's rights: we were never married, I left him before I had our son, neither of us has filed for custody or visitation rights, he is paying child support, there is a DNA test on file with the courts, my H at that time (we are now divorced) did NOT adopt my DS but we did do a legal change of name & had DS's last name changed to my married name. I was told that because there is nothing stating either of us have custody my ex fiancee could go to DS's school with the DNA test & say he was taking DS. Of course, since I had no info on dad listed with the school they would call me (& I would in turn call the police) but there would be nothing the school could do to stop him from leaving with DS.

I just wanted to let you know it IS possible for the other parent to leave with the child & there be nothing you could do because you had no proof you had custody. So, please look into this with your local courts & find out what it would take for you to make sure this would never happen to you & your girls.

****Update/response****

Thank you so much to everyone who posted. I do appreciate the majority of you! Im trying to remember and respond to everything I read no offense if I miss something!

First off to the lady who posted about the father can take them out of state without my consent and all that nonsense...well I don't know where you live but that is actually called parental kidnapping is is very much against the law. Maybe your trying to be an alarmist or maybe you don't know what you are talking about I don't know either way you are very misinformed.

Breastfeeding and weaning people! Oh my goodness!!! What a debate! I was not trying to say that he should not have them because they still nurse just stating a fact of the matter. Related point: I do express breast milk when I go to work. On the days he is home with them sometimes all the bottles will be gone( and scattered about the house) other days the bottles have not been touched at all which means they went 9 hours without milk...WHY might you ask? Because he felt they ate enough already or because he forgot or because they didn't seem to need it....well they ALWAYS need it anytime anyone else watched them regardless of the amount they ate that day so.....you tell me about that huh? Anyhow my daughters LOVE to nurse and I have no intention of weaning them before they are ready and I don't care what any one thinks about that.

To the lady who asked why I don't just go to a lawyer and figure it all then....because that way will cost way more money.

To the lady who asked why go to a lawyer at all because I am well aware that verbal agreements do not stand ground. What ever agreement is reached will be a legal verifiable document.

A few people posted about child support. I am not saying I am going to ask him nice to give me a check every month. I am saying I expect child support and am therefore going through my county to secure that.

A lot of you said " well just talk it over with him"....Well I have tried that/am trying that. His response " well you're going to make sure you get what you want anyway" and he storms off. Not at all a lets be grown ups and figure out this giant fuckin mess we're all in kinda thing at all. So I am going to draft an offer of agreement, take it to a lawyer and go from there. That is why I ask what might be fair. Dude is a immature dickwad but he is also the father of my beautiful precious amazing daughters. If they decide they want nothing to do with each other when they are older that is their choice to make. I will not take that choice from any of them.

That is all I an wrap my brin around at the moment I hope that answerd all the questions....

Thanks again! Most of you are awesome!


I don't know what state you are in but most police will tell you that if there is no custody order their is nothing the can do about a parent removing a child from school at anytime.  He could walk in and take him from your home or from a relatives home if he chose and because he is the biological father and there is no order of custody, just a last name change the police will not do anything.  

erinsmom1964
by Gold Member on Dec. 4, 2012 at 1:24 AM

I haven't read the responses just your post and the updates.  it is NOT kidnapping if there is no custody agreement...That you are more concerned with $ then finding out and making everything strictly legal is alarming...I hope it doesn't bite you in the ass

erinsmom1964
by Gold Member on Dec. 4, 2012 at 1:26 AM

This happened to my hubby with his other children.  the mother packed up and left state while he was at work.  Now once you track them down( if you do) then there is something you can do about it but the local police, state police and even the Sheriffs dept said the same thing.  No custody agreement no crime

Quoting CampClan:

I just wanted to reply to this. I worked for the local children services in my town. I basically had to run legal docs to the courthouse to be filed. I spcifically asked about my ex fiancee's rights: we were never married, I left him before I had our son, neither of us has filed for custody or visitation rights, he is paying child support, there is a DNA test on file with the courts, my H at that time (we are now divorced) did NOT adopt my DS but we did do a legal change of name & had DS's last name changed to my married name. I was told that because there is nothing stating either of us have custody my ex fiancee could go to DS's school with the DNA test & say he was taking DS. Of course, since I had no info on dad listed with the school they would call me (& I would in turn call the police) but there would be nothing the school could do to stop him from leaving with DS.

I just wanted to let you know it IS possible for the other parent to leave with the child & there be nothing you could do because you had no proof you had custody. So, please look into this with your local courts & find out what it would take for you to make sure this would never happen to you & your girls.

****Update/response****

Thank you so much to everyone who posted. I do appreciate the majority of you! Im trying to remember and respond to everything I read no offense if I miss something!

First off to the lady who posted about the father can take them out of state without my consent and all that nonsense...well I don't know where you live but that is actually called parental kidnapping is is very much against the law. Maybe your trying to be an alarmist or maybe you don't know what you are talking about I don't know either way you are very misinformed.

Breastfeeding and weaning people! Oh my goodness!!! What a debate! I was not trying to say that he should not have them because they still nurse just stating a fact of the matter. Related point: I do express breast milk when I go to work. On the days he is home with them sometimes all the bottles will be gone( and scattered about the house) other days the bottles have not been touched at all which means they went 9 hours without milk...WHY might you ask? Because he felt they ate enough already or because he forgot or because they didn't seem to need it....well they ALWAYS need it anytime anyone else watched them regardless of the amount they ate that day so.....you tell me about that huh? Anyhow my daughters LOVE to nurse and I have no intention of weaning them before they are ready and I don't care what any one thinks about that.

To the lady who asked why I don't just go to a lawyer and figure it all then....because that way will cost way more money.

To the lady who asked why go to a lawyer at all because I am well aware that verbal agreements do not stand ground. What ever agreement is reached will be a legal verifiable document.

A few people posted about child support. I am not saying I am going to ask him nice to give me a check every month. I am saying I expect child support and am therefore going through my county to secure that.

A lot of you said " well just talk it over with him"....Well I have tried that/am trying that. His response " well you're going to make sure you get what you want anyway" and he storms off. Not at all a lets be grown ups and figure out this giant fuckin mess we're all in kinda thing at all. So I am going to draft an offer of agreement, take it to a lawyer and go from there. That is why I ask what might be fair. Dude is a immature dickwad but he is also the father of my beautiful precious amazing daughters. If they decide they want nothing to do with each other when they are older that is their choice to make. I will not take that choice from any of them.

That is all I an wrap my brin around at the moment I hope that answerd all the questions....

Thanks again! Most of you are awesome!



angelette_89
by on Dec. 4, 2012 at 4:58 AM

yea n see thats the problem with the whole problem because she went to go after him for child support n but he doesn't have a job so how is he suppose to pay child support if he doesn't even have a job... i mean don't get me wrong he is trying very hard to get one, he is looking for one everyday n puts in applications online all the time.... n always out looking n putting in applications but always getting rejection letters n he's got his high school diploma n culinary vocational trade... so i don't understand why he's not getting hired...

CampClan
by Bronze Member on Dec. 4, 2012 at 6:16 AM
That's what I was trying to say... if OP doesn't file for custody then the BD can come get the child. But like I said... it's weird because in the state of Ohio a father has no rights til he files for them but yet if he doesn't have a custody order he can still take the child.

Quoting CoeyG:


Quoting CampClan:

I just wanted to reply to this. I worked for the local children services in my town. I basically had to run legal docs to the courthouse to be filed. I spcifically asked about my ex fiancee's rights: we were never married, I left him before I had our son, neither of us has filed for custody or visitation rights, he is paying child support, there is a DNA test on file with the courts, my H at that time (we are now divorced) did NOT adopt my DS but we did do a legal change of name & had DS's last name changed to my married name. I was told that because there is nothing stating either of us have custody my ex fiancee could go to DS's school with the DNA test & say he was taking DS. Of course, since I had no info on dad listed with the school they would call me (& I would in turn call the police) but there would be nothing the school could do to stop him from leaving with DS.

I just wanted to let you know it IS possible for the other parent to leave with the child & there be nothing you could do because you had no proof you had custody. So, please look into this with your local courts & find out what it would take for you to make sure this would never happen to you & your girls.

****Update/response****

Thank you so much to everyone who posted. I do appreciate the majority of you! Im trying to remember and respond to everything I read no offense if I miss something!

First off to the lady who posted about the father can take them out of state without my consent and all that nonsense...well I don't know where you live but that is actually called parental kidnapping is is very much against the law. Maybe your trying to be an alarmist or maybe you don't know what you are talking about I don't know either way you are very misinformed.

Breastfeeding and weaning people! Oh my goodness!!! What a debate! I was not trying to say that he should not have them because they still nurse just stating a fact of the matter. Related point: I do express breast milk when I go to work. On the days he is home with them sometimes all the bottles will be gone( and scattered about the house) other days the bottles have not been touched at all which means they went 9 hours without milk...WHY might you ask? Because he felt they ate enough already or because he forgot or because they didn't seem to need it....well they ALWAYS need it anytime anyone else watched them regardless of the amount they ate that day so.....you tell me about that huh? Anyhow my daughters LOVE to nurse and I have no intention of weaning them before they are ready and I don't care what any one thinks about that.

To the lady who asked why I don't just go to a lawyer and figure it all then....because that way will cost way more money.

To the lady who asked why go to a lawyer at all because I am well aware that verbal agreements do not stand ground. What ever agreement is reached will be a legal verifiable document.

A few people posted about child support. I am not saying I am going to ask him nice to give me a check every month. I am saying I expect child support and am therefore going through my county to secure that.

A lot of you said " well just talk it over with him"....Well I have tried that/am trying that. His response " well you're going to make sure you get what you want anyway" and he storms off. Not at all a lets be grown ups and figure out this giant fuckin mess we're all in kinda thing at all. So I am going to draft an offer of agreement, take it to a lawyer and go from there. That is why I ask what might be fair. Dude is a immature dickwad but he is also the father of my beautiful precious amazing daughters. If they decide they want nothing to do with each other when they are older that is their choice to make. I will not take that choice from any of them.

That is all I an wrap my brin around at the moment I hope that answerd all the questions....

Thanks again! Most of you are awesome!


I don't know what state you are in but most police will tell you that if there is no custody order their is nothing the can do about a parent removing a child from school at anytime.  He could walk in and take him from your home or from a relatives home if he chose and because he is the biological father and there is no order of custody, just a last name change the police will not do anything.  

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