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I suggest you stop talking to me like that..you're 5 years old.

Posted by on Sep. 10, 2013 at 1:33 PM
  • 29 Replies

 I don't know what to do about our 5 year old dd anymore. Ever since she turned 5 she's been out of control. It's always been bad, but good grief. Her attitude is horrible. Before, it would be that she was awful to me during the day (attitude, refusal to do things, fighting everything I'd say) and when dh would come home she would chill and do the things she was supposed to do during the day. Now, she's just horrible. It's to the point I don't want to be around her at all. She still talks to me horribly, is demanding and just disrespectful..but we've added in flat out refusal to do things. Time outs are ridiculous, it takes all day to get her to sit for 5 minutes and by then she's racked up so many for all the reasons I've listed that she'll be sitting there all night.

She refuses to clean her room, but dh doesn't feel like taking everything away except for her bed is the way to go about getting her to do it. I'm just done cleaning it. I can't even vacuum in there because there are toys strung everywhere. Then, she'll go in and mess up her brothers rooms, leaving an even bigger mess. Our house is in total disarray.

The attitude and disrespect, I don't know where to begin. I guess for about a year or so now, it's not been good. I would hear how I'm a bad mom and how dd wished she had a new family on multiple occasions or how she wished it was just her and our 2 month old living here..meaning she wished that our 2 year old wasn't here. This morning when I was telling her she needed to clean her room, she yelled "what the heck..do you not see I"m eating here?!" at me. This was a good hour after breakfast. Of course, she got a time out for yelling and speaking to me like that. Did she do it? Nope..she ran upstairs and back downstairs and said "I'm playing with brother" and took off again. She just refuses, and it's really starting to wear me down.

Food is a whole nother battle. She complains about being hungry up until food is ready, and then takes two bites and says she's full. Then bedtime comes around and all of a sudden she's starving. She takes snacks when I tell her no--like if it's too close to a meal, or she didn't finish a meal (not like I give her very much,..she gets as much as our 2 year old gets, and he out eats her), or has already had a snack and then will tauntingly eat it. I've put snacks up in the cabinet, but she'll still get stuff from the fridge.

Her doc suggested we put her on melatonin at her well child visit because we were having sleep issues. We waited until school started and then made the decision to start it because she was still staying up super late.

I just don't know what to do anymore. I've read parenting books and have asked advice, both on her and from friends/family, and nothing has worked. I'm at my breaking point and just ready to disconnect. If we don't figure something out soon, our other two are going to do the same thing. It's gotten to a point that she's even keeping the attitude and disrespect toward me when dh gets home and has started it towards him too.

We've cut electronics, and the only tv time she gets is if she's watching one of her movies. I don't know where all of this is coming from. Dh and I don't talk like that to one another, especially in front of the kids. We honestly hardly ever argue. I just don't know where to begin. Our 2 year old listens fairly well...about as good as a 2 year old. She'll say she's sorry and how she feels really bad about how she's acted, but then it's right back to the same ways again. Time outs aren't working. If I spank her, she screams at the top of her lungs and acts like I've broken her body the rest of the day. She'll say my butt still hurts 3 hours later when she's told to do something. Reasoning with her doesn't work. Doing some kind of reward chart doesn't work, because she wants the reward right then..even if it's set for the next day. Right now, we stay home because she's in half day K, but before she started school I refused to take them out when it was just me because she would start with the fits and attitude when we would go out if I didn't get her a toy/candy bar/snack/insert whatever she wanted here. We have never been the parents to give her everything she asked at the drop of a hat, but she's gotten in to this sense of entitlement, which has really spurred the escalated attitude/disrespect/refusal.

Clearly, we're doing something wrong for it to be this bad, but I don't know what it is. She has a good life, we're good parents (as good as we can be I guess). I'm sure some would agree and other may disagree. She definitely doesn't lack in any area, but doesn't get everything she wants when she wants it. I'm not looking for a short and easy answer, I know this will take time to correct...but I don't know how to correct it when everything we've tried has failed.

by on Sep. 10, 2013 at 1:33 PM
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Replies (1-10):
LaughsAlot
by Member on Sep. 10, 2013 at 1:52 PM
5 moms liked this

 Video her when she is acting up & than play it for her & her dad after he gets home, sounds like she would be very embarrassed if her dad knew/saw how she was behaving, also seeing herself on tv may also help her relize how shes treating you...hugsgood luck

SamMom912
by Silver Member on Sep. 10, 2013 at 2:03 PM
5 moms liked this

Can I recommend 1 more book?
The Explosive Child by Dr. Ross Greene.
His theories are amazing. Helping kids with behavioral challenges can be frustrating, draining, isolating...and really hard. A lot of what people say about these kids – that they’re attention-seeking, manipulative, coercive, unmotivated, and limit-testing – doesn't help. And a lot of what's said about their parents – that they’re passive, permissive, inconsistent, noncontingent disciplinarians – doesn't help either.
We’ve learned a lot about challenging kids in the past 40 years. We now know that they’re lacking skills, not motivation...skills like flexibility/ adaptability, frustration tolerance, and problem solving. That knowledge makes it possible for us to help these kids in ways that are much more humane, compassionate, and effective.  It doesnt involve time outs or punishments.. cause those dont teach. It involves indirectly teaching the LACKING--- not necessarily LACKING skills.

Challenging behavior occurs when the demands of the environment exceed a kid’s capacity to respond adaptively. In other words, it takes two to tango. and Im not saying you're doing anything wrong... but in order to change HER maladaptive behavior to being told/asked/ requests you need to change your behavior.
http://www.livesinthebalance.org/solving-problems-collaboratively
There are a few short videos that you may want to watch to see if this is something that you could accept and try.
Ive totally done this--- for the last 2 years... My son was down to a mattress and a meal I had taken so many things away-- and the firmer I got--- the worse he was.... THIS--- This has changed our game... and IMPROVED our lives 150 percent.

Saharra
by Bronze Member on Sep. 10, 2013 at 2:05 PM
1 mom liked this
I'm not a fan of spanking, but in this case, I wouldn't hesitate. It is NOT ok to be disrespectful of you. If she's doing it now, imagine what she will do as a teen. It's time to nip it in the bud. Start taking things away that she can earn back by being good. Does she like to read or play games? 30 minutes at the end of the day if she has done really well. Find out what makes her tick and use it. Discipline isn't the same for every kid (sadly!). But I have zero tolerance for disrespect.
dutchcanadain
by on Sep. 10, 2013 at 2:08 PM
wow at 5 yrs of age she run's the house ,mother of 5 adult kids they put me through hell ,but your daughter can not clean her room by her self she needs help ,so help her,but she can put her toys away if not clean up tell 5 min then garbage bag it out it goes no if or buts ,at 5 she eats more then 2yr old does so give her more ,ask her what should we make for supper get her involve she might give you the look ,but in the end she love you for it ,what she mad about is everything does it get better lol yes it does my daughter is 24yrs and she bush my buttons ,she is beauty full woman i am glad to be her mom and you will too, take one day at time ask her at dinner time how was your day at school ,you need to find out because some this what makes her upset ,about snacks tell her you can have one after school and before bedtime but you need brush your teeth ,if she talks back take away some thing she like or loves and she only gets it back till she says sorry ,you need a quit home and she shaking it up your the mom you make the rules ,not her okay take a day off from work just have fun ,and have fun with her mom just you and her the other kids can stay with other half get your nails done ,go for walk tell her things you did when where her age and laugh and listen to her mom right now she no longer a baby but young girl ,it won't happen over night but you will see her change but love every moment with her,take one day at time always tell her you love her no matter what we as girls need to here that ,and one day you sit back lol we did good luck mom
mom_to_kenzie
by Member on Sep. 10, 2013 at 4:49 PM
Quoting dutchcanadain:

wow at 5 yrs of age she run's the house ,mother of 5 adult kids they put me through hell ,but your daughter can not clean her room by her self she needs help ,so help her,but she can put her toys away if not clean up tell 5 min then garbage bag it out it goes no if or buts ,at 5 she eats more then 2yr old does so give her more ,ask her what should we make for supper get her involve she might give you the look ,but in the end she love you for it ,what she mad about is everything does it get better lol yes it does my daughter is 24yrs and she bush my buttons ,she is beauty full woman i am glad to be her mom and you will too, take one day at time ask her at dinner time how was your day at school ,you need to find out because some this what makes her upset ,about snacks tell her you can have one after school and before bedtime but you need brush your teeth ,if she talks back take away some thing she like or loves and she only gets it back till she says sorry ,you need a quit home and she shaking it up your the mom you make the rules ,not her okay take a day off from work just have fun ,and have fun with her mom just you and her the other kids can stay with other half get your nails done ,go for walk tell her things you did when where her age and laugh and listen to her mom right now she no longer a baby but young girl ,it won't happen over night but you will see her change but love every moment with her,take one day at time always tell her you love her no matter what we as girls need to here that ,and one day you sit back lol we did good luck mom



Cleaning her room is truly just picking up her toys. It's not like I make her dust or vacuum or anything like that. It's putting the toys she's pulled out back in her toy box and any other toys that she has around thehouse too.
countrygirlkat
by Kathleen on Sep. 10, 2013 at 5:17 PM
1 mom liked this

First off you need more support from your DH.  He needs to work with you on what needs to be done to get her to behave and not veto ideas like taking things from her room that might actually work. 

Secondly I know you said you had read a bunch of books, but we love, love, love a boook called Love and Logic:Magic for Early Childhood by Jim and Charles Fay.  It is more about having her accept her natural consequences for her actions and less about having to actually discipline all the time. 

Take the cleaning her room for example.  You calmly ask her once or twice to clean her room.  Nothing more, no nagging, no yellling.  When she doesn't do it in a bit you quietly go in there with a trash bag and take all the things on the floor.  You do not make a big production out of it you do not lecture while you are doing, in fact you don't say anything unless asked.  If she asks you tell her that you see she is very busy so you are going to go ahead and pick up her room for her but since you picked it up you get to put it where you want to put it.  Put it in storage and she has to earn it back. 

For the eating, teach her the numbers on the clock or use a timer.  Tell her breakfast is between this time an this time and you are more then welcome to eat however much you want in that time.  Once that time is up take the food away.  Tell her the next food will not be until snack which is at whatever time.  She is more then welcome to have something then.  If she throws a fit then calmly say, "Uh, oh, so sad.  I need you to go to your room until you can act nice." That is it.  No lecturing, no fighting.  Walk her there and she can come out when she is calm.  There isn't a time limit.  If she is calm and nice in 30 seconds great she can join you again.  If she tries to come out and still be rude then she has to go back.  She will eventually get tired of being in there over and over again and will think before having to be sent there.  Don't lecture her when she comes back out.  She knows why she had to go in there and she is learning on her own.  Do the same thing of sending her to her room anytime she is rude for whatever reason.

If she messes up her brother's room ask her once or twice to clean it.  If she does not then tell her you are sorry but she cannot go in there anymore because it isn't fair to you to have to clean it.  If she tries to go in there at all then send her to her room just like before. 

The other huge part of the love and logic is giving her as many choices throughout the day as you possibly can to make her feel she has control over some things.  Ask her if she wants the blue plate or the red plate, ask her if she wants the pink coat or the purple one, on and on do this.  Even ask if she wants to go to bed in 5 minutes or now.  Only give her two choices each time and if she doesn't pick either pick for her.  If you give her tons of choices though then when it is your turn to make a choice tell her that you gave her plenty of choices throughout the day and now you get to choose something. 

Overall I love the theory.  There is so much more to it so I would highly recommend the book or the seminars or the cds.  Good luck. 

mom_to_kenzie
by Member on Sep. 10, 2013 at 5:57 PM
Quoting countrygirlkat:

First off you need more support from your DH.  He needs to work with you on what needs to be done to get her to behave and not veto ideas like taking things from her room that might actually work. 

Secondly I know you said you had read a bunch of books, but we love, love, love a boook called Love and Logic:Magic for Early Childhood by Jim and Charles Fay.  It is more about having her accept her natural consequences for her actions and less about having to actually discipline all the time. 

Take the cleaning her room for example.  You calmly ask her once or twice to clean her room.  Nothing more, no nagging, no yellling.  When she doesn't do it in a bit you quietly go in there with a trash bag and take all the things on the floor.  You do not make a big production out of it you do not lecture while you are doing, in fact you don't say anything unless asked.  If she asks you tell her that you see she is very busy so you are going to go ahead and pick up her room for her but since you picked it up you get to put it where you want to put it.  Put it in storage and she has to earn it back. 

For the eating, teach her the numbers on the clock or use a timer.  Tell her breakfast is between this time an this time and you are more then welcome to eat however much you want in that time.  Once that time is up take the food away.  Tell her the next food will not be until snack which is at whatever time.  She is more then welcome to have something then.  If she throws a fit then calmly say, "Uh, oh, so sad.  I need you to go to your room until you can act nice." That is it.  No lecturing, no fighting.  Walk her there and she can come out when she is calm.  There isn't a time limit.  If she is calm and nice in 30 seconds great she can join you again.  If she tries to come out and still be rude then she has to go back.  She will eventually get tired of being in there over and over again and will think before having to be sent there.  Don't lecture her when she comes back out.  She knows why she had to go in there and she is learning on her own.  Do the same thing of sending her to her room anytime she is rude for whatever reason.

If she messes up her brother's room ask her once or twice to clean it.  If she does not then tell her you are sorry but she cannot go in there anymore because it isn't fair to you to have to clean it.  If she tries to go in there at all then send her to her room just like before. 

The other huge part of the love and logic is giving her as many choices throughout the day as you possibly can to make her feel she has control over some things.  Ask her if she wants the blue plate or the red plate, ask her if she wants the pink coat or the purple one, on and on do this.  Even ask if she wants to go to bed in 5 minutes or now.  Only give her two choices each time and if she doesn't pick either pick for her.  If you give her tons of choices though then when it is your turn to make a choice tell her that you gave her plenty of choices throughout the day and now you get to choose something. 

Overall I love the theory.  There is so much more to it so I would highly recommend the book or the seminars or the cds.  Good luck. 




Thanks. I actually have that downloaded on my kindle. The elementary school she goes to actually practices this. It was a last hope for me. I'll definitely read it and try it now
emarin77
by Bronze Member on Sep. 10, 2013 at 6:18 PM

Is her behavier affecting her at school?  Does she have any odd social behaviers?  I would have a child pychologist diagnose her since nothing to help her behavier.

countrygirlkat
by Kathleen on Sep. 10, 2013 at 6:59 PM
That is how we first heard about it is my DH was a teacher and the schools were sending their teachers for seminars to it. Then later when our kids were in elementary school in a different district they taught it there to parents. I think it is very good.
Quoting mom_to_kenzie:

Quoting countrygirlkat:

First off you need more support from your DH.  He needs to work with you on what needs to be done to get her to behave and not veto ideas like taking things from her room that might actually work. 

Secondly I know you said you had read a bunch of books, but we love, love, love a boook called Love and Logic:Magic for Early Childhood by Jim and Charles Fay.  It is more about having her accept her natural consequences for her actions and less about having to actually discipline all the time. 

Take the cleaning her room for example.  You calmly ask her once or twice to clean her room.  Nothing more, no nagging, no yellling.  When she doesn't do it in a bit you quietly go in there with a trash bag and take all the things on the floor.  You do not make a big production out of it you do not lecture while you are doing, in fact you don't say anything unless asked.  If she asks you tell her that you see she is very busy so you are going to go ahead and pick up her room for her but since you picked it up you get to put it where you want to put it.  Put it in storage and she has to earn it back. 

For the eating, teach her the numbers on the clock or use a timer.  Tell her breakfast is between this time an this time and you are more then welcome to eat however much you want in that time.  Once that time is up take the food away.  Tell her the next food will not be until snack which is at whatever time.  She is more then welcome to have something then.  If she throws a fit then calmly say, "Uh, oh, so sad.  I need you to go to your room until you can act nice." That is it.  No lecturing, no fighting.  Walk her there and she can come out when she is calm.  There isn't a time limit.  If she is calm and nice in 30 seconds great she can join you again.  If she tries to come out and still be rude then she has to go back.  She will eventually get tired of being in there over and over again and will think before having to be sent there.  Don't lecture her when she comes back out.  She knows why she had to go in there and she is learning on her own.  Do the same thing of sending her to her room anytime she is rude for whatever reason.

If she messes up her brother's room ask her once or twice to clean it.  If she does not then tell her you are sorry but she cannot go in there anymore because it isn't fair to you to have to clean it.  If she tries to go in there at all then send her to her room just like before. 

The other huge part of the love and logic is giving her as many choices throughout the day as you possibly can to make her feel she has control over some things.  Ask her if she wants the blue plate or the red plate, ask her if she wants the pink coat or the purple one, on and on do this.  Even ask if she wants to go to bed in 5 minutes or now.  Only give her two choices each time and if she doesn't pick either pick for her.  If you give her tons of choices though then when it is your turn to make a choice tell her that you gave her plenty of choices throughout the day and now you get to choose something. 

Overall I love the theory.  There is so much more to it so I would highly recommend the book or the seminars or the cds.  Good luck. 




Thanks. I actually have that downloaded on my kindle. The elementary school she goes to actually practices this. It was a last hope for me. I'll definitely read it and try it now
AM-BRAT
by Amber on Sep. 10, 2013 at 7:03 PM
2 moms liked this
I would purge toys.

I sometimes call my 5yo 'Veruca' as she gets completely nuts. Worse to worse? Spoon to the butt. Works for us. Gl.
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