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So this debate has me going crazy....

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Rear face or forward face...what are you doing and why?

CafeMom Tickers
by on Feb. 13, 2013 at 12:52 PM
Replies (31-40):
Salem2012
by on Feb. 13, 2013 at 3:56 PM

*sigh* ok....i understand rear facing to 2 because of the internal decapitation thing....but 4 will always seem excessive even 3 does because i am sure a 4 year old has good enough neck muscles by then.

Randi02
by Platinum Member on Feb. 13, 2013 at 3:58 PM
1 mom liked this

They're happy and it takes no extra effort. It makes a huge difference as far as safety, though, and that's why I do it.

I'm sure you've heard about Joel or Micah. They both survived being internally decapitated, but most kids don't. It is an injury that does not occur in rear facing children, since their necks/spines/skulls are cradled by the seat during impact. Why not protect your children from that for as long as possible?

Quoting Salem2012:

I was not saying she would be uncomfortable it just seems excessive to me to keep a kid rear facing til 4 is what i am saying. Even if they are not passed the height and weight requirements.

Quoting Randi02:

Excessive? Not really. Their seats rear faced to 35lbs. They were 34lbs and 42/44 inches when I turned them. Excessive would be exceeding the weight/height limits on their seats, we were well within them.

My 2.5 year old is in a seat that rear faces to 40lbs, and she is only about 37 inches tall right now - and less than 30lbs. She has a long way to go.

This is a horrible picture, lol - but you can see she's not uncomfortable at all.


https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/422826_10151164123761520_1722450845_n.jpg

Quoting Salem2012:

See to me this is just excessive.


Quoting Randi02:

My older kids were almost 4 when I turned them. My 2.5 year old and 2 week old are both still rear facing.

Why? It's what's safest, and I would not be able to live with myself if something happened and I had not dine my best to protect them. It takes no extra effort, and it is so much safer.







emkirkley
by Silver Member on Feb. 13, 2013 at 3:58 PM

it's not about just the muscles.  the bones of the cervical spine do not solidify until age 6 and since the head of a preschooler is such a large proportion of the body, that combined with the openness of the spinal bones and the stretchiness of the ligaments and muscles--which stretch much further than the spinal cord--this is why it is NOT excessive.

I'll see if I can find some graphics to explain more.

Quoting Salem2012:

*sigh* ok....i understand rear facing to 2 because of the internal decapitation thing....but 4 will always seem excessive even 3 does because i am sure a 4 year old has good enough neck muscles by then.


blapier
by Bronze Member on Feb. 13, 2013 at 3:59 PM
My dd will be 2 in less than a month and we switched her to FF just last week. We got a new car so it was a lot easier to put her in.
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ceckyl
by Silver Member on Feb. 13, 2013 at 3:59 PM
It's pretty clear you have done no research on the development of the spine in a child, or else you would understand.


Quoting Salem2012:

*sigh* ok....i understand rear facing to 2 because of the internal decapitation thing....but 4 will always seem excessive even 3 does because i am sure a 4 year old has good enough neck muscles by then.


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Jaxsonsmama2009
by Silver Member on Feb. 13, 2013 at 4:00 PM
2 moms liked this
My one year old is rearfacing of course but so is my three year old. There is no 'debate' in my opinion, it's obviously safer.
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emkirkley
by Silver Member on Feb. 13, 2013 at 4:01 PM

All the safety experts say it's safest for a child to rear face as their spine is not strong enough to protect the spinal cord if they are forward facing. It's not strong enough because the vertebrae are in pieces joined by cartilage. The vertebral arch has not fused into a complete circle of bone, which will enclose and protect the spinal cord.


In the first picture there is a cervical vertebrae for a one-year old (left), and beside it a cervical vertebrae for a 6 year old (right). Note that the 1-yr old's vertebrae is still in pieces.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL133.../293669158.jpg

In the 2nd picture, thoracic vertebrae for a 1 yr old (left) and for a 6 yr old (right). Note that the 1-yr old's vertebrae is still in pieces.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL133.../293669157.jpg

In the 3rd picture, lumbar vertebrae for a 1 yr old (left) and for a 6 yr old (right). Note that the 1-yr old's vertebrae is still in pieces.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL133.../293669156.jpg


The vertebrae do not begin to fuse until age 3-6 years old. This is why rear-facing is the safest as it gives more support and protection to the incomplete vertebrae and therefore the spinal cord. With vertebrae in pieces, a forward facing child has a greater chance of damage to the spinal cord when their head and neck whip forward and back in a crash.

To see what I mean by crash forces a child experiences in a crash, go to http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/stayrearfacing.aspx
Scroll down the page to read the section titled "Why should my child rear-face past 1 year and 20 lbs?" for an explanation of crash forces and look at the crash test videos of forward-facing and rear-facing seats, the videos are at the bottom of the page.

We have car seats that allow children to rear-face up until 30-35 lbs, each seat varies. For many children this is well into their 2nd year if not older, and closer to the age when their vertebrae are fused. We just need to use the seats rear-facing to give children more protection in a crash.

Salem2012
by on Feb. 13, 2013 at 4:01 PM

No i have not done research on it.


Quoting ceckyl:

It's pretty clear you have done no research on the development of the spine in a child, or else you would understand.


Quoting Salem2012:

*sigh* ok....i understand rear facing to 2 because of the internal decapitation thing....but 4 will always seem excessive even 3 does because i am sure a 4 year old has good enough neck muscles by then.




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Randi02
by Platinum Member on Feb. 13, 2013 at 4:03 PM

Thank you! This is just what I was coming back to say :)

I don't understand how anyone who took basic anatomy and physics classes in high school can't grasp this. It's simple stuff!

Quoting emkirkley:

it's not about just the muscles.  the bones of the cervical spine do not solidify until age 6 and since the head of a preschooler is such a large proportion of the body, that combined with the openness of the spinal bones and the stretchiness of the ligaments and muscles--which stretch much further than the spinal cord--this is why it is NOT excessive.

I'll see if I can find some graphics to explain more.

Quoting Salem2012:

*sigh* ok....i understand rear facing to 2 because of the internal decapitation thing....but 4 will always seem excessive even 3 does because i am sure a 4 year old has good enough neck muscles by then.



emkirkley
by Silver Member on Feb. 13, 2013 at 4:05 PM
1 mom liked this

problem with your statement is that people don't take physiology or physics classes, they take biology which really doesn't get into this type of stuff. 

That's why it is the job of those of us more educated on these facts to put the facts out there.  I try not to be demeaning, but straightforward.  Do I think it's something everyone should do more research on, certainly; are they all going to do it, no, but those reading might think twice about it after they read discussions that are informative and not just blasting people about making uninformed choices.

Quoting Randi02:

Thank you! This is just what I was coming back to say :)

I don't understand how anyone who took basic anatomy and physics classes in high school can't grasp this. It's simple stuff!

Quoting emkirkley:

it's not about just the muscles.  the bones of the cervical spine do not solidify until age 6 and since the head of a preschooler is such a large proportion of the body, that combined with the openness of the spinal bones and the stretchiness of the ligaments and muscles--which stretch much further than the spinal cord--this is why it is NOT excessive.

I'll see if I can find some graphics to explain more.

Quoting Salem2012:

*sigh* ok....i understand rear facing to 2 because of the internal decapitation thing....but 4 will always seem excessive even 3 does because i am sure a 4 year old has good enough neck muscles by then.




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