Quick rant, forward as you will:

Time to put an end to Democrat's archaic 19th/20th-century Marxist utopian fantasies and get some work done in the real world. This kid (link below) survived war in Iraq, only to be gunned down at a bus stop in his own Democrat-engineered home town of Cleveland, OH:

http://enews.earthlink.net/article/nat?guid=20080601/48421ec0_3421_13345200806011787471293

Next time you hear a neocon-hater asking how many innocent people have to die because of conservative ideals, like National Security and personal responsibility; ask them the same question about the ideology of personal entitlement, blame-projection and "freedom from feeling bad about myself". They'll try to tell you that Baghdad is more dangerous now than it was under Saddam. Maybe so, it is still the focal point of a global conflict after all. Check the death toll for Baghdad on whatever day you're reading this, then compare it to Detroit, St. Louis, Cleveland, Little Rock, Atlanta, etc... The evidence of failed social experimentation abounds in just about every major city in the U.S., liberal ideals & policies are misguided, dangerous and ruining America. VOTE REPUBLICAN

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ma2ca...
Jun. 2, 2008 at 1:55 PM I always love your journals.

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veggi...
Jun. 2, 2008 at 2:29 PM Well, if you mean liberal "let's talk to the terrorists and see if they'll quit decapitating people and blowing up buses long enough to sit at the negotiating table," then yes, I'm with you. I think that extreme liberalism is often naive when it comes to matters of national security and foreign policy. That said, the Bush administration has made some major mistakes. With hindsight, I would say, "Yes, terrorism needs to be addressed and it's a problem the way we've been dealing with it (or more accurately, NOT) up until now," BUT I'd likely pass on giving the Bush administration the go ahead. I would have been much happier with a McCain administration overseeing the war.

If you mean liberal ideals and policies such as gay marriage are ruining America, then NO DICE, baby. Unless you consider integration and interracial marriage part of the failed social experiment, that is (and yeh, I know, I can hear you already, "it's not the same!!", lol). Yet another point of divergence, eh?

Good points about "freedom from feeling bad about myself" -- ugh, whatever happened to character building? Last time I checked, the "downs" in life were a vital part of learning to grab your bootstraps and keep on walking. And yeh, personal entitlement and blaming has gone overboard, but I dare say there are some areas that you would deem as such that I would refer to as equal rights or freedom of expression. Well, we can't have everything, can we?

Personally, I am so sick of the two party system I could puke. We need more independents, libertarians and such so that our options are not restricted to idiotic partisan infighting and politics as usual.

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norwe...
Jun. 2, 2008 at 5:48 PM

NO...he means liberalism as it's affected our society with regards to crime, morality, education, divorce rates, teen pregnancies, drug use, a sense of entitlement--to OTHER PEOPLE"S PROPERTY AND MONEY...I believe it's those policies over the last few decades that have had an adverse affect on the American 'experience' in general.

 Since his sister was married to an AA...uh, he's not talking about that...ahem.

 Exactly, he's talking about the Character building which the public schools decided to insinuate themselves into as well as the gov' t in the form of family 'interventions', CPS, etc...and they have FAILED miserably. And, yes, I do hold the education and gov't intervention high on the accountablility radar, including ngo's and special/agenda driven groups as well, pushing issues that have worked together to erode the society that pretty much supported the family unit as the back bone of America and they did collectively promote the idea of certain behaviors being 'shameful' or 'disgraceful' which DID work to keep behaviors--from the free will 'desire' to be a responsible citizen and not to bring shame on oneself or family--etc.

 I saw a guy, can't think of his name right now, who was a former liberal speaker...now, not so much, who says that the problem, ultimately, with todays liberals in power is that they ascribe ALL 'discrimination' as 'intolerable' which necessarily then excludes any real DISCERNMENT of any issue...something to consider hey?

 

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norwe...
Jun. 2, 2008 at 5:49 PM

Thank you ma2caleb! : )

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ebeth05
Jun. 3, 2008 at 12:26 AM

thanks for this insight. god bless your husband and his bravery.

 

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veggi...
Jun. 3, 2008 at 12:16 PM

Interesting points.  Some I agree with you on, like divorce rates and a sense of entitlement.  IMO, people often have no commitment to making it work when things get rough and are willing to "opt out" far too quickly.  Divorce is so hard on kids.  And yeh, the whole "I deserve this" without putting in the effort grates on me.  Parents who raise their kids like that need a good smack in the head.

Some things, though, I don't think you can easily attribute just to liberalism -- too many other variables at play, IMO.  Like drug use and teen pregnancies -- in my experience, kids who use drugs and end up pregnant are just as likely to come from a conservative background as a liberal one.  Did you ever read "Freakonomics?"  Great book.  The author talks about one of the side effects of abortion over the past decades is that the crime rate dramatically decreased (and NO, I'm not saying abortion is good because of this, only that it was an unforeseen consequence).  The women and men most likely to be absentee (or poor) parents (and thus increase the likelihood of their kids growing up to be involved in criminal behavior) were those who, prior to RVW, were popping out kids left and right AND who were in living conditions (below the poverty line, little education, single-parent homes, issues with controlled substances, etc.) that increased the likelihood of their kids being involved in a criminal element. 

That's great that the author isn't referring to interracial relationships as a slide in morality, but I have a few friends in such relationships and it's been hard regardless of where in the country they lived.  Plus, I live in Indiana and I can tell you from personal experience that many conservatives still look down upon interracial relationships as a morality slide, so it's still out there . . . ahem . . . (lmao, couldn't resist . . . hugs to you, chica!) 

The "Character Building" you're referring to in the schools:  is this like everyone getting a participation ribbon and no trophies, even if someone came in first, second or third?  Or the "patting on the back" 100% of the time to the exclusion of "making kids feel bad" by giving them lower grades that accurately reflect their efforts/input?  Or questioning teachers who have a problem with a student instead of making said kid take the consequences and cough up some personal responsibility?  If so, I hear ya':  that's a lot of crapola, IMO.  I definitely agree, too, that too many families aren't raising their kids to be responsible citizens and to act in a manner that conveys respect and pride in one's self and community.  But is that because of liberalism alone?  I dunno . . . I see the biggest problem being the loss of the one-income family (no one is home raising the kids anymore, no guidance), overextended schedules and a high divorce rate. Parents either don't have (or make) the time to be the mentors required, little to no quality time (and personal interaction) is being spent with kids or the family unit as a whole, and divorce is just rough on kids.  There are good reasons for it, but it's become an easy out in many ways.  Plus, some of the most involved, committed parents I know are liberals who place an extremely high priority on personal responsibility, respect and being a good citizen.  I'd put myself squarely in the liberal camp, but I'm with you on national security and the military (good post, btw,on the "did GWB lie about the war?" thread, I agreed wholeheartedly with you . . . oooh, you hear that?  Sounds like hell freezing over, lol . . .)  Anyway, Chris and I are strict, no excuses for behavior, take your consequences, be respectful kind of parents who think the family unit is extremely important, yet we're very liberal in some ways (gay rights and separation of church & state).  I really don't think it's so simple as "the liberals are at fault" or "the conservatives got us in this mess" . . . .

On your last point, I know what you mean.  Too much P.C.-ness morphs into an ironic form of intolerance in and of itself in that it disavows any discernment or value judgment on any situation (and here you thought I didn't understand you, lol).  I think that's a problem when we're willing to ignore abuse or oppression in our midst because it's not "P.C." to disagree with someone or make a value judgment about their behavior.  IMO, abuse and oppression trump overboard P.C. tolerance any day.  But (as you well know, wink) I would NOT apply this analogy to the gay rights movement:  I see that as a push for equal rights, NOT entitlement. 

Hey, you got SOME concessions out of me.  How's that for progress? :-)

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norwe...
Jun. 3, 2008 at 3:54 PM

and you accuse ME of verbosity! You ever hear that we are more critical of those things in others that we are subconsciously aware that we do ourselves???

On your study about abortion and decline in crime...I think THAT would be MORE difficult a thing to PROVE as the underlying 'cause' of the change than anything I suggested! Holy cow...changes in police methodology; neighborhood watch; more police on the street; technology...I mean, come on..there's no way you could say look, abortion's legal and we have less crime therefore....failed logic 101. LOL

 I am saying it is the effect of liberalism moving out the traditional conservative values of the society. As I stated, when there was 'shame' associated with certain behaviors, pride in family, family name, job well-done, responsible behavior, not so much focus on ME as there is today. The cultural changes we experience today versus thirty years ago are directly attributable to liberal social ideals being thrust upon the society via the schools in two ways: hamstringing and intervening in the authority and responsibilities of parents in the family unit, and in the instruction on social matters/issues/ outlook on the children whom they have for seven hours a day, five days a week, 9 mos of every year...of course, there is also television which has become more lax on the issues 'discussed' on the shows AND the acceptable visual and language in prime time television...

 

ooopppss..lightning...gotta go!

progress yes...progressiveness? no...

 

Pati

 

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veggi...
Jun. 3, 2008 at 11:46 PM

Are you calling me VERBOSE?  (wipes tear from eye . . . .)

Seriously, read "Freakonomics" -- the guy covers all your points.  And lots of interesting stuff besides that.  I seriously think you'd like it.  Like, I'm totally serious (channeling my 12-year-old son) . . .

Gotcha on the whole "ME" thing and I agree it was pushed by a liberal agenda.  Taking the "gay rights" issue out of the equation, can you give me some examples of the "hamstringing" and "social matters instruction" you're referring to?   As for TV, 100% agree.  A lot of it's just in the gutter, both morally and intellectually.  Which is why we let our "classic cable" lapse -- although there are some quality shows on cable (History Channel, A & E, Discovery, TLC, etc.).  Have you watched cartoons on Cartoon Network lately?  Talk about a bad influence.  Yikes . . .

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norwe...
Jun. 5, 2008 at 2:54 AM

Just a few...I'm tired. Had lightning all day AGAIN! And my back went out late last night...so, I'm cranky: )

To name a few they took over sex education in the schools (taking it from the parents because THEY could do a BETTER job of it AND with education there would be NO reason for there to BE pregnancy of unwed young girls..that was the 'promise'..ahem) this became a gradual move to teaching about birth control as IT changed through liberal policies i.e. the pill, followed by Roe v Wade, followed by schools teaching appropriate ROLLS in family (specifically proper TOUCHING by mommy or daddy), followed by classes teaching about homosexuality being 'normal', culmunating with the entire abortion movement pushing for legislation to keep PARENTS OUT of the MAJOR decision in their TEEN'S life with regards to abortion (the schools cannot give them an aspirin, but the federally funded PP can perform a procedure on them that could be in some cases life threatening and certainly bring about psychological blowback, but you know, ONE PERCENT might be from incest..so, those BAD BAD parents' authority and guardianship must be viewed through the prism of MOST are ignorant and incapable..ahem) followed by teaching children about masterbation, fisting, and other forms /methods of sexual pleasure...; before that was the removal of prayer in the classroom and the gradual, (this was preceded of course with the introduction of Darwin's theory as fact slowly, but surely and raising questions then for students with regards to their parents intellect/belief/tradition versus the academics competing worldview, followed by the rendering the MENTION of God or one's belief in God unacceptable on school grounds EVEN in a valedictorian speech, followed by moves to keep the pledge of allegiance out of the classroom, and then to remove God from the pledge...Then, there is the whole drugs discussion that they've taken over; they have decided that parents don't spend enough time with their kids so since they, the schools, have taken on issues the PARENTS should be in charge over, the teachers come up with long term projects that cannot be done without the parent's assistance..when the child does not succeed...it's ALL the BAD , neglectful parents..of course, the fact that maybe there is only ONE parent who works three jobs or two parents both of whom work and the kids are with a daycare provider, whose hands are too full with too many to care about school work, till dinner and bed is forgotten..not to mention the fact that there is likely more than one child with teachers peddling their work off in order to do PARENTING versus 'teaching'; then there are the teacher strikes that show the kids that money IS the end all be all and that even though their teachers WILL criticize their PARENTS in the EARSHOT for not making sure they get 'educated' at home, suggesting their education must not be very important to mommy and daddy, when it comes down to it...it's really ALL about the money, entitlement, benefits (yes, I'm anti UNION and walkouts) ; they've even taken over their 'nutrition' because they think parents are too stupid...do you know that if your child, like mine, is lactose intolerant your WORD on that as a parent is 'rejected' not 'respected' and that you must provide the school with a NOTE from a DOCTOR to prove such or your child will be made to PURCHASE milk....in AL, there were lunches and breakfasts for the low income children...know who paid for them? NOT the taxpayers, in general, but the parents of the kids who didn't qualify for low income: i.e. the low income lunch and breakfast was .40 each..for each one of MY kids it was $2.50..meaning that I could not AFFORD to have MY kids have a school lunch everyday but they could AT MY EXPENSE...because it was THEM who worked hard to get a degree and promotions and pay raises so they could provide BETTER for THEIR kids...right;... then there is the NEA, the MOST powerful union in the US; dictating the ideological leanings of the curricula nationwide and all the liberal policies from removing competition in the schools to suggesting that all forms of discriminating are 'wrong', and promoting the idea that parents are woefully inadequate and should be regarded as suspect. ...

There's just a few of them, ....: )

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Imma...
Jun. 12, 2008 at 8:04 AM

Thanks for sharing from your hubby!!   We four are definately on the same page!!  (((HUGS))) for your lonliness!!  Enjoy the kids in the meantime!!  I'm always here for a pm!! 

WELL SAID!!!  Even in the midst of being cranky!

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