Religion in schools: A lose lose situation

[katzmeow726]

   Disclaimer:  this is just a counter point to another journal.  No I"m not calling the mother out, LOL.  But I felt it would be a good idea to offer a differen't view.  I'm not rude, I'm not saying she is wrong and the teacher was right.  I just wanted to offer what it feels like from the vantage point of a person who follows a certain faith.  Sometimes I only put Christianity, but I do mean to include all religions in this, and I tried to remember to say that.  BUt since this is written by a christian, I used christianity most because its the view point I am most familiar with.

    When it comes to religion in schools, it always seems that somebody is getting hurt by it.  Although I find myself wondering if some argue their side merely for the sake of argument.  And while I'm sure people of other faiths have had their say about christianity in schools, the main arguments always seem to come down to Christian verses Athiest.
    It just seems like neither side is right, nor are they wrong.  
    As a Christian myself, walking into a room of a Christian teacher would be such a comfort as I hand my children off to a stranger.  A person that I must trust with the care and education of my little ones.  To see those verses would bring a smile to my face, and I would know that the presence of the Lord was there.
   But I'll look at it from the other side to be fair.  If I had raised my child to be an athiest (this mainly pertains to athiests and christians, so I'll stick to the one belief LOL, it gets too tiring to type "all the different beliefs") and she reads those verses, she'll bring home uncomfortable questions.  And as a person pointed out she may feel like an odd girl out, doubtful, but she may.  And as a parent I wouldn't take comfort in it.
   But let me turn this around.  A parent reports a teacher for displaying verses, and now she is forced to pull them down.  I can now expect those same questions.  Questions about why teacher's verses went away.  Now just like you I can choose to let her know why, or hold back.  And as a christian, even in the BIble belt myself, I know what it feels like to be the odd girl out. 
   Its even harder on Christians because we're going against our faith by not sharing God's love.  Although some people truly forget that is what we as Christians should do.   So not only was she doing something that might give her comfort to see everyday, she was following one of the basic rules of our faith.  And verses aren't just for show, they are used as blessings.  Blessings upon homes, churces, and yes schools.  To be told we aren't allowed to share Gods love, even in such a subtle way, is a slap in the face.
    Again I can see the views of the other side, particularly for people of other faiths.  I shouldn't try to share my faith with someone who strongly believes in theirs, right? Well I'm not sure where I stand on this.  While I am called to share, I can understand where it might be confusing for a child.  But this is were I find myself confused by atheism.  Its a lack of a belief in a deity, for the most part.  So what if, as a teacher, I asked the kids about santa or put up a picture of santa in my class.  And some mother has taught her child that he is not real.  Can't she just say "he's a myth, a decoration for a holiday."  So wouldn't be just as easy to tell your child that God is a myth?  I can hear it now "I shouldn't have to."  Well I shouldn't have to tell my child that her teacher can get in trouble for being an open Christian in the classroom, now should I?
    But overall this stupid situation is a lose lose one.  If a Christian is open about her faith in schools or a government business, he or she is shoving faith down peoples throats.  But if an athiest (or to be fair another faith) says I can't wear a cross, pray openly, or have my favorite verse on a wall I feel as if they're shoving not only their beliefs, but the constitution down my throat.  All because this country is so adament about being politically correct.  It wasn't until people realized that they could  use the constitution to punish open Christians (yes I believe that is what started this) that this whole idea of not allowing open faith in government buildings happened.  Or at least that is what it feels like to a Christian.
    What are you afraid of.  Does it scare you that your child may be exposed to a different ideology?  I'm not.  If my children entered a room of a Hindu, Islam, Jew, or even a pagan, its ok.  I could explain later that night what the symbols meant.  I would explain that this is not the faith we follow though.  However I do recognize that my children may one day choose another path.  It may not be the choice I wanted, but it is their choice.   But I'm not afraid of them being exposed to different ideas, but I am afraid that they may feel ashamed of their faith.
   Yes, this country treats faith symbols as shameful, although that was not the original idea.  But what message does it send when you are supposed to pray in private, keep verses and christian/religious symbols hidden away?  It sends the message that faith, any faith, is an occult (hidden) thing.  And should remain that way.  How far will things go after this?  Not allowed to wear a cross, not allowed to bring a bible to read on your breaks, not allowed even speak about Christ with a fellow christian for fear another may report that you are "shoving your faith" down their throats.  Sad to say I fear this things may come to pass.
     Why is it only athiests or other religions can stand up for their rights in the US?  Why can't Christians?  If other faiths fought to display images of their faith I wouldn't have an issue, but its hardly if ever the case.  Its always feels like it is agains't the images of Christianity.  It just amazes me that, in a free nation (supposedly free) I have to worry about how far the government and the people of this nation will go to make sure religion isnt' in schools. I can understand not wanting the teacher to force kids to worship or pray, or wanting her to teach christianity.  Thats totally 100% understandable.  I wouldn't want someone doing that to my child. 
   If I put a verse on the wall, shoving my faith in your face is the last thing on my mind.  To be honest that is totally a self centered point of view, its not always what we're doing.  It is just nice to look up and see a gentle reminder that God loves me, or that he'll take care of me.  If I want to pray at the opening of the day, even just too myself I should be at least allowed to bow my head.  Sure I can pray with my eyes open and staring, but it doesn't feel right.  But will I stand up.  WIll I file a complaint about a teacher not displaying images of my or other faiths?  No, because I would be laughed at.  Only people who want imaged removed are allowed to complain.  Other than that we're just shoving our faiths down their throats.  It's not fair, it's not right.  Yet I can still see the views of the other side.  This is why this is lose lose.  This fight will never end as long as people feel that a subtle expression of faith is "in your face."  Its not.  SUre there are those not so subtle people, I'm a christian and I can admit that.
   All in all it boils down to this.  There are people who truly stand up for their beliefs in this world.  There are also others  who stand only to hurt those of other faiths.  And it sucks because we sometimes do not know which is which.  We don't know if that person is doing it for attention, or to antagonize a person of faith.  Or if they are truly offended.  I'm not offended when I walk into a school taht doesn't pray or allow verses on the walls.  I'm disappointed sure, but not offended.  Just as if I wouldn't be offended if a teacher had their religion displayed in a subtle manner.  But to be told we have to hide our faiths....that sucks. 
    Church and state was meant to prevent the government from making us follow one religion.  Basically the government can't endorse a particular belief.  But by  their own words, athiests have the government endorsing their beliefs.  In its attpemts to be fair and make sure everyone is happy, they pick the easiest group to appease, leaving faiths out in the dark.

[MemawBrie]

Aug. 20, 2009 at 3:05 AM

Church and state was meant to prevent the government from making us follow one religion.  Basically the government can't endorse a particular belief.  But by  their own words, athiests have the government endorsing their beliefs.  In its attpemts to be fair and make sure everyone is happy, they pick the easiest group to appease, leaving faiths out in the dark.

I AGREE!  But, since I DID NOT want my children in the hands of an atheist, buddhist, muslim, or anyone other than someone who shared the same Christian convictions and beliefs that I do, I chose to homeschool. (Sorry for the long winded run-on sentence)

The problem is that atheists (by their own admissions) want even the mention of God/Jesus Christ or the Bible wiped off the face of the earth.  As long as believers are here, that's NOT going to happen.

[MAUREEN55]

Aug. 20, 2009 at 3:12 AM

Since I'm a teacher I wanted to respond to your post.

I don't feel at all that keeping religion out of the public schools is picking in Christianity in any way.  Teachers of allfaiths (including Atheists) are permitted from bringing religion into the classroom.  Any thing a teacher does to contradict the values being taught by parents is inappropriate.  Our job is to educate academics. When teachers walk the line of teaching values or morality it takes away the parents rights to raise their children as they see fit. 

Teachers have a huge influence on our kids, I am not at all comfortable with the thought of teachers influencing my child's spirituality.  He attends a Christian daycare so I know what they teach him.  By choosing that day care I have control over what he will he be learning about spirituality.  It's not fair to take that control away from parents.

I didn't read the journal you are referring to, but I see your point about how a bible verse being removed might confuse your daughter. That is why the verse never should have been displayed. 

I also agree with that I wouldn't be offended by teachers displaying their faith in a subtle manner.  If would be fine with me if my child had passage from the Koran posted near her desk. 

Would it be fine with all the parents?  doubtful

Would it be fine if she discussed it with students when they asked her about it? maybe

Would it be fine if she read it aloud and had a class discussion about it? not at all

The problem with subtle is that it's up to interpretation. One person's subtle is in your face to another person. 

[randi1978]

Aug. 20, 2009 at 3:23 AM

I generally keep my nose out of these kinds of politics.  I am an atheist and I teach my daughter that she can follow whatever path she wants.  She believes in the christian god and believes there is heaven after death.  She knows that I do not believe.  I encourage her to explore and ask questions about everything.  We have attended christian churches, synagogues, buddhist temples, etc.  I wanted her to make an educated decision and not a decision based off "mommy says so, so i have to do it" (and raising them that one particular faith, or lack of,  is the only true path in life is basically telling them such)

While I agree with keeping religion out of schools, sometimes I wonder if things would be better if schools honored and taught about ALL RELIGIONS.  Instead of focusing on what the majority practice, focus and spread it out to other faiths so children can see that walking a different path in life is not scary or wrong.

[katzmeow726]

Aug. 20, 2009 at 3:28 AM

I agree randi. Besides religions make up such a big part of history.  keeping kids blinded to religion is actually hurting them.  Not to mention literature has so many allusions to religon, not know such allusions can really hurt them, espeically in college.

(Original Poster)

[MemawBrie]

Aug. 20, 2009 at 5:15 AM

When I was homeschooling my kids, we did study other religions. We examined them in the light of what God's Word teaches.  I wanted them to know what different religions were out there, and how many of them are nothing more than counterfeits for the truth. 

The Bible says satan presents himself as an angel of light to deceive people. We learned that many religions mix a little truth with a lot of error in trying to be appealing.

I wanted them to be able to recognize fundamental differences in doctrinal truths.

[lovemybabygirl7]

Aug. 20, 2009 at 9:31 AM

Thank you for this journal.  This is something I have wanted to write about for the last couple days but couldn't come up with the right words.  You said it best and thank you for not backing down.

[randi1978]

Aug. 20, 2009 at 9:42 AM

MemawBrie, no disrespect, but you were using your own bias against the other faiths when teaching.  The christian faith is not the one true faith.  You are basically saying that the other religions were evil in some way or form.  THAT is not right and no parent should have the right to teach their child that hogwash, especially under the guise of "education".

 

[sherriet]

Aug. 20, 2009 at 10:15 AM

Posters with religious verses of any kind should not be posted on the doorway, on the walls, or in any place hat is intended to display educational material.  By doing that, the teacher was wrong, period.  If she had not done it, there would not have been a problem.

Why is it so difficult for people to realize that people following a different path are not lacking morals?  I think that may be the issue - a perceived lack of morals by non-Christians.  The belief that taking Biblical references out of schools led to the problems in schools today reign supreme.  It has to be the lack of the Bible, nothing else.

[jramsaran]

Aug. 20, 2009 at 10:31 AM

just because someone follows the word of god, does not make them a safe bet...

do you forget the sunday school teacher who is accused of killing the little girl?  how about the godly teachers who molest their students?  i am sorry, but just because someone has "god is great" on their desk, does not mean they are safe....

P.S. It's spelled atheist....I know school might have taught you I before E except after C... etc. 

i am not blinding my child to religion...i am allowing her to access ALL religions...not just one.   You make WAY too many assumptions and your lack of general knowledge of atheism has lead you to improper conclusions.  Get to know a few atheists and their beliefs before you go running off and posting about something you only understand one half of.

[IhartU]

Aug. 20, 2009 at 10:45 AM

Why is it so hard to keep your beliefs out of public schools? Schools are for learning not for worshipping. A bible verse may comfort you, but that doesn't mean it will comfort everyone else. You see it as reaching out and sharing your faith and others may see it as arrogance, assuming and intolerant of the many other faiths in our very diverse country.

There is a reason for separation of church and state and more and more everyday I am glad our Founding Fathers had the forethought to realize it and implement it.

Also, there is absolutely no one or no law  forbidding a child or an adult  to say a silent prayer or to read their bible on their own time in a public school building. It's when you FORCE others to see your religious literature on the walls or to read about it or FORCE everyone in a classroom, auditorium or school function to pray in your way to your god that it becomes an issue.

We need to be fair and tolerant of other faiths and I am seeing more and more that the fairness and tolerance only comes from Christians in this country when things go THEIR way.