Babies, baptisms, and differing beliefs on such

[-KaylaLee-]

My sister and I had an interesting conversation, thought I'd relay it on here.  I'm southern Baptist, she is Catholic, (and we get along fine, lol, just kidding).  Anyway, we were talking about the differences in why Baptists aren't worried so much about whether or not babies are baptized and why Catholics believe they should be. 

S. Baptists, as explained to me by my pastor, believe that infants are born innocent.  They do not sin, they are lambs belonging to God.  They do not become accountable until they are old enough to understand right from wrong.  Until they are old enough to truly understand what it means to be saved and to make that decision for themselves.  Of course, there is no set age for this, it depends on the child and their level of understanding.  We  believe that if a child or infant dies that was too young for this, the good Lord takes them home.  I don't believe my children need to be baptized at this point of their lives in order to go to heaven should they pass away.  I want them to make that decision for themselves when they are old enough to understand what it means and be saved.

Both s. Baptists and Catholics believe the following, in my own words minus the scripture quote.  In the garden of Eden, God warned Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.  "But the Lord God warned him, 'You may freely eat the fruit of every tree in the garden-except the tree of knowledge of good and evil.  If you eat its fruit, you are sure to die." Genesis 2:16 and 17.  Well, we know Adam and Eve didn't die a physical death when they disobeyed God.  It was a spiritual death.  This is why we must come back to God in our lifetime here on Earth and be born again.  Because until you are saved, you are spiritually dead.  This does not mean you do not believe in God or you don't love God.  You can do both and not be saved and be spiritually dead, I was, I just didn't know it.  Lots of people are.  It is by being saved that we are born again and reunited with God. 

Catholics believe, as explained by my sister, that because of this fall from grace, we are all born spiritually dead.  And that is why babies must be baptized before they are old enough to understand about God.  So that they may go to heaven should they pass away.  Personally, I don't like to think of any alternative to that for innocent babies just because they weren't baptized.  But my sis and I weren't fighting, we were truly just talking about the differences in beliefs.  It's so nice when you can truly do that!!

So, that's one difference in our beliefs, but I thought of an interesting point tonight.  And this is purely my belief.  Well my sister and I both believe that babies can sometimes see angels that we can not.  Call us corny, but we believe this with all our hearts.  So if we both believe that angels do God's work and watch over little ones, and sometimes the little ones can see the angels that we can not, then how can those babies be spiritually dead?  No.  I don't think that happens until they are past the age of innocence and enter the age of accountability.  Again, there is no set age for that, it depends on the level of understanding of the child. 

Any thoughts?  Now lets not bash.  Just talk about it if it pleases you.

[bamartin]

Sep. 19, 2009 at 12:38 AM

I am also Catholic the one thing to be remembered is that in the Catholic faith Baptism in first of 8 Sacraments.  And that there is need for instruction after Baptism.  And to quote the Catechism of the Catholic Church " Born with a fallen human nature and tainted by origional sin, children also have need of the new birth in Baptism to be freed from the power of darkness and brought into the realm of the freedom of the children of God, to which all men are called.  The sheer gratuitousness of the grace of salvation is particularly manifest in infant Baptism.  The Church and the parents would deny a child the priceless grace of becoming a child of God  were they not to confer Baptism shortly after birth."  Also it says that "Christian parents will recognize that this practice also accords with their role as nurturers of the life that God has entrusted to them."  

I do not believe that a small child that has died and was not baptised will not be with God in Heaven.  I do very much trust in God's mercy  and would pray for their salvation. 

[eringobrough]

Sep. 21, 2009 at 12:27 AM

I think it's nice that you and your sister can talk about these things without fighting. 

As a Catholic, I agree with your sister.  But I don't think they are "spiritually dead" more that because of original sin we are separated from God.  I know many S. Baptists think "Separation from God" is a result of personal sin and therefore they believe that before the age of reason everyone is bound for heaven. Catholics believe that humanity's "Separation from God" is the result of Adam & Eve's sin (aka original sin).  As the Bible says "Surely I was born sinful, a sinner when my mother conceived me." (Psm 51:5)

Original sin is the idea that "in" Adam all have sinned and parallels the doctrine of redemption that "in" Christ all are saved (see Rom 5:12-19).  Adam is the representative of the flesh. Christ is the representative of the Spirit. When we are born physically, born into the flesh, we are in Adam. We are in original sin.  When we are baptized—when we are born again, when we are born of the Spirit—we are in Christ.

So it is through baptism that we are "born again".  Baptism is much more than symbolic - it actually does something supernatural.  It's a gift to us from God - something God does for us not something we do for God. 

Of course, God can do anything so we can trust and hope in God's mercy that he will grant His grace to babies who die before baptism.  Afterall, we don't earn God's grace, it a free gift from God.  But God doesn't break his promise, and so we can know for certain without a doubt that if an infant dies after baptism they will go to heaven, because that is what Christ promised.

[-KaylaLee-]

Sep. 22, 2009 at 12:24 AM

Thank you ladies for your civil comments.  I must admit two things.  First, I feel embarassed that I may have come off flippant about the Catholic faith.  It is a powerful one, and I hope I haven't been disrespectful.  Second, it is food for thought for me.  I am thoroughly questioning myself on is it really no big deal that my babies are not baptized yet?  Doing some thinking, and that's thanks to your enlightenment.  Thanks for responding ladies!

(Original Poster)